• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass My new professor

I guess my problems are:

(1) If a person comes to this forum and asks out of the blue for suggestions to investigate about available double basses, one particular person and the same particular person will bully anyone who might suggest something other than an Upton product. What's that word? - Perseverate! To the point of denigrating another decent product that might serve someone else well. Most people just don't bother to suggest anything else anymore and I am close to that point as well.

Bully anyone who suggests anything other than Upton? You're really over the edge now. Seems you're getting desperate. I have not done that, I do not do that, and I will not do that. Yes, I have been enthusiastic about Upton's products. That is based on my experience with those products and being a happy customer. I usually do not offer negative opinions about any brand. You brought up the Kremona in the context of suggesting that the Uptons might lack value. That was difficult to ignore, given my subjective judgment that that particular bass falls far short, along many dimensions, of not only the Professor but many other fine basses that have been discussed in these threads. Still, the Kremona, for some, may be a fine choice, given its price. This is all beside the point. I suggested as folly your questioning the quality and value of the Upton Professor based on your erroneous generalization from a set of pictures.

(2) If any one expresses a different opinion, or a preference that is different from that person's ideas, they are personally attacked and their ideas are blugeoned with what amounts to hubris.

You were never personally attacked. Gee, I thought you were asserting that you never stated an opinion. Flip-flop.


Sooner or later this person's judgement in a side by side comparison that others cannot easily make has to be called what it is: subjective opinion.

Of course my judgments, and anyone else's with regard to basses is subjective. That's what opinions are.

While it is fine to report subjective opinion, it is probably not the best practice to attack the subjective opinion of others with your superior credentials and lengthy history of experience. If you are a player of note, your name will be well known, or the ensemble / symphony, etc. that you play with or the recording label that signed you or the studio where you do session work. We all have profiles that people can access. There is nothing wrong with two opposing opinions being expressed. But arguments not based on objective facts do not serve the sharing of experiences here.

I agree and have not violated that. You seem not to be able to tolerate the disagreement you find so healthy. Once again, you did not even admit to stating an opinion about the instruments. When an opinion is stated, anyone has the right to assess it's value by considering the source and the bases on which it was formed. I played the basses, you looked at pictures. I don't expect anyone to adopt a preference for this or that bass on the basis of my experiences.

Of all people to play the role of the wounded, Dave!
 
Look, just stop this stupid argument already. You're both arguing over essentially nothing, and you're both spending way too much time analyzing each other's motives and words.

If someone comes here to ask what's a good bass to buy, you tell them what you think is a good bass to buy. Or you can tell them to do some rigorous research and try out as many basses as possible, like I usually do.

So when people keep suggesting Upton basses, I don't think they're really trying to push Upton products; they're just telling new bassists that they will be very happy with Upton products. But if you're happy with another bass, you can certainly do the same and say that you're very happy with your bass, whether it be New Standard, Kremona-Bulgaria, Shen, or whatever else.

There are two things that I just can't stand:
- someone criticizing someone else's suggestion without any real merit.
- a seller and supporting member of TB who explicitly/implicitly suggests that someone who raves about their bass and the seller who sold that bass is a shill. Yes, this happened before, and I won't name names. I just don't want it to happen again.
 
+1 with drake ... waste of bandwidth.

The label inside a bass can cause some people to chose sides almost like a sports rivalry.:scowl: To put it another way, "My dad is better than your dad". "Is not"!!

Nice basses? Surely. Buy the bass you like from China, Romania or wherever, but realize that, in the end, it's just one bass and others will chose the bass that's right for them.

FWIW, I bought my bass from Upton without playing it largely on the word of many on this forum and have been very happy with it. From my perspective however, the sizzle has begun to get in the way of my enjoyment of the steak.;)

Thank you Chris for offering to do a side by side comparison with your NS. I have wondered myself how they might stack up. Robgrow isn't too far from you, is he?
 
Please don't think I've gone and appointed myself a Mod but IMO several posters on this thread really should appologize to the OP, lloccmttocs. Way to rain on someone's new DB parade, guys. These sort of arguments should not be in someone's new bass thread and if someone starts to throw out the bait, a lot of us should know from experience not to take it or to move the conversation elsewhere.

Every bass is made from wood. No two are the same, nor are any two players the same. Play whatever floats your boat.

BTW: Nice new bass, lloccmttocs. Hope you enjoy it and play it in good health. Maybe you can post some clips for us some time.

Thanks,
S
 
Look, just stop this stupid argument already. You're both arguing over essentially nothing, and you're both spending way too much time analyzing each other's motives and words.

If someone comes here to ask what's a good bass to buy, you tell them what you think is a good bass to buy. Or you can tell them to do some rigorous research and try out as many basses as possible, like I usually do.

So when people keep suggesting Upton basses, I don't think they're really trying to push Upton products; they're just telling new bassists that they will be very happy with Upton products. But if you're happy with another bass, you can certainly do the same and say that you're very happy with your bass, whether it be New Standard, Kremona-Bulgaria, Shen, or whatever else.

There are two things that I just can't stand:
- someone criticizing someone else's suggestion without any real merit.
- a seller and supporting member of TB who explicitly/implicitly suggests that someone who raves about their bass and the seller who sold that bass is a shill. Yes, this happened before, and I won't name names. I just don't want it to happen again.

Well stated. I agree and thank you.
 
Chris,

I travel quite a bit and next time I'm in your neighborhood, I'll get in touch. I recently did I little side by side comparison with Jeremy Allen, who I think is a mutual friend of ours. I was on tour in Bloomington and we played his Cleveland, my Upton, and his fancy old English bass in the same room. My impression was that the Upton and the Cleveland were very comparable, just that the Cleveland costs twice as much.
 
Hey, you can always just ignore a post without relying on technology to do it for you.
Never seen a TV without an off button, but you are right. Anyway, the technology / bulletin software did allow that in the past. Seems it used to show up in the options under a posters name, with send PM, etc. It probably didn't get used much. But there are times......
 
Just go to the user's profile by clicking on his/her user name and then on "View Public Profile." On that page, you will find an option to add the user to your ignore list.
 
First, to lloccmttocs: congrats on your new bass. What's really more important than anything else here is that you got an instrument that you like and that inspires you to play. Don't let the peanut gallery distract you from the prize. :)


Chris,

I travel quite a bit and next time I'm in your neighborhood, I'll get in touch. I recently did I little side by side comparison with Jeremy Allen, who I think is a mutual friend of ours. I was on tour in Bloomington and we played his Cleveland, my Upton, and his fancy old English bass in the same room. My impression was that the Upton and the Cleveland were very comparable, just that the Cleveland costs twice as much.

Corey - that would be great. I trust Jeremy's judgement implicitly; that said, I'd still love to see, hear and feel some of these basses that get argued about, and to make some side by side recordings and observations to reference is there's any interest.
 
I hate to admit that I tend not to read these threads about people getting new basses anymore because they always seem to devolve into some weirdly antagonistic debate. That's a perplexing trend.

Anyway, I made a brief mention of it elsewhere, and Corey and I did have a nice time swapping basses around. I've tried to write a comparison of the basses before, and I can't really capture it. Everyone should try them in person, if possible. (That's a big "if," I know.) I will say that I loved the Upton ply, that it surpassed any other plywood bass I've played in the under-$2K price range (Shens, Englehardts, and Kays, although good luck finding a Kay for that little), and that it's the first thing that comes to mind when someone needs a quality axe for a ridiculously low price. I obviously have spent a lot more time on the Cleveland, and it is what I recommend to anyone looking for a good bass for under $5K. I think it's a great bass, and it has changed the way I approach the instrument. But these two instruments are kind of like apples and oranges, in design and sound as well as in price, so it really depends on what a person needs the bass for and how it will be used.

Sorry to be vague, but I will say with certainty that the number of choices available to bassists looking for high-quality, low-cost instruments today boggles my mind when considering what the situation seemed to be just ten or fifteen years ago. The first basses I bought were expensive hunks of junk, because before the world went online you just went into the one bass store within driving distance and chose between the two basses on hand that fit the price range. I still see students who have had this experience (the $6000 carved Chinese bass made out of green wood that just snaps into pieces after a year). The current situation is better for everybody, except for those of us trying to sell a bass we bought back in that period without losing our shirts. (Which is why my Cleveland is probably going on the block very soon, much to my dismay, but that's another story.)
 
The only catch to this statement, is that you are grouping basses that cost different amounts of $ together for comparison. The Upton is @ 25% more than a Shen or Englehardt (I only know because I faced the same decision @ a year ago). But perhaps I'm just a finance geek.

:D

You're right, the devil is in the details. I'm currently in the untenable position of owning (or at least making payments on :rollno: ) close to $60,000.00 worth of double basses, so I was speaking of the under-$2K category in general. But I see that when purchased from Upton, the UB ply, the Englehardts, and the Shen SB100 (probably the Shen more comparable to the UB) are $1900, $1859/$1949, and $1800 respectively. I'm sure you can get an Englehardt for cheaper, but it would come without the professional set-up which makes or breaks these basses and which you would have to shell out a good chunk of change for anyway. The lowest priced Shen will save you $450 from Upton (and you can find it for less elsewhere, but then you have to pay for shipping or taxes); I bought one for a high school once and played it for a few days before I delivered it, and although it was pretty groovy I wouldn't put it in quite the same category as the Upton. I don't mean to come across as if I'm saying that $450 is an insignificant sum of money or something, and I know nothing is more frustrating for a first-time bass buyer with $1500 tops than to have someone say "listen, just plan on spending $2K and get the [insert bass here]." But if I did have $2K to spend, I'd probably spend it on the UB rather than on the Shen or Engle of equal price, and instead of buying the Shen SB80 or the poorly-set-up Englehardt and dropping the remaining $450 on bows/ amps/accessories. That's just me, though; IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, FWIW, FWIS ("from where I'm standing"--did I just make that one up?), QED, Res Ipsa Loquitur, et cetera.
 
Full disclosure: I went with the Shen SB80.

Here's my full disclosure: I went back to the high school a year later because the band director called me to take a look at the SB80. His barbaric students had found some way to bend the bridge in half, I have no idea how; it's like they kept the top of the bridge in the same place but gradually pushed the feet forward until the thing warped. But, when I pushed things back into place so that the strings were at least off the fingerboard and I gave it a spin, I was amazed at how great it sounded. A year of constant playing, even by the barbarians, really opened it up; the best is yet to come! Which is a good sign in any bass.
 
Please don't think I've gone and appointed myself a Mod but IMO several posters on this thread really should appologize to the OP, lloccmttocs. Way to rain on someone's new DB parade, guys. These sort of arguments should not be in someone's new bass thread and if someone starts to throw out the bait, a lot of us should know from experience not to take it or to move the conversation elsewhere.

Every bass is made from wood. No two are the same, nor are any two players the same. Play whatever floats your boat.

BTW: Nice new bass, lloccmttocs. Hope you enjoy it and play it in good health. Maybe you can post some clips for us some time.

Thanks,
S

Thank you, I started the Dragonetti Concerto a week or so ago, We're not going to do the whole first movement just yet, but 3/4ths of it is done and refining right now, once I get it better I'll post it.