My "on the cheap" CNC router build

[Hopkins]

Some of them are junk others are not, depends on the construction. Most will not usually come with software but the new plc's are inexpensive. The bad news is being inexpensive means after so many cycles you will end up retrofitting a new Plc as they are not repairable.

Would have to see unit but for pickguards, likely no issues.

These are two that I was looking at. I am not quite sure what the difference between a 4 and 3 axis machine is. I only see points of movement in either machine. EDIT: never mind, I see the 4 axis machine comes with a lathe type attachment which I would not need.
400W 3 Axis 3040 CNC Router Engraver Milling Machine Engraving Drilling Desktop/
4 Axis 110V CNC Router 3040 Engraver Engraving machine 400W 3D carving cutter US

 

[scottyd]

Sweet. CNC 2.0 looks pretty badass.

Does Mr. Jones approve?

Thanks... He has not pee'd on it yet.. so that can mean he either loves it.. or he hates it..

 

[scottyd]

Just a question from a guy who doesn't want to deal with sourcing parts and building my own CNC. Do you think those small CNC machines on ebay that sell for about $750 are good enough to not be a total waste of money? I know the bed isn't really large enough to cut bodies, but I was thinking about using it more for pick guards and cutting headstock inlays. But than again, I don't want to flush money down the drain on a total pile of garbage either.

I would look into the shipping on them. Most of them cost quite a bit to ship, and they normally only do so via barge to port, which I guess if you live close to a port that would be ok. From what I have read some guys get them damaged and the return process is a nightmare.. They also normally require some upgrading as some of the included equipment is not so great.

 

[Hopkins]

I would look into the shipping on them. Most of them cost quite a bit to ship, and they normally only do so via barge to port, which I guess if you live close to a port that would be ok. From what I have read some guys get them damaged and the return process is a nightmare.. They also normally require some upgrading as some of the included equipment is not so great.

The two I posted are free shipping for one and standard shipping for the other from California, so its not an international shipping nightmare in either case. I am more worried about it being an inaccurate pile of junk at that price point. But from the photos they actually look pretty sturdy.

 

[Smilodon]

These are two that I was looking at. I am not quite sure what the difference between a 4 and 3 axis machine is. I only see points of movement in either machine. EDIT: never mind, I see the 4 axis machine comes with a lathe type attachment which I would not need.
400W 3 Axis 3040 CNC Router Engraver Milling Machine Engraving Drilling Desktop/
4 Axis 110V CNC Router 3040 Engraver Engraving machine 400W 3D carving cutter US

I have a larger version of the same kind of machine. (mine is a 6040) the quality is difficult to predict as there are many people in the far east selling these with different configurations. From my experience there are a few things to watch out for:

- The electronics are junk and needs to be replaced. A Gecko 540 and a Smoothstepper will get you pretty far. The stepper motors and power supplies will probably be ok if you are aware of their limitations.

- The cutting area is smaller than the table. (You also have to subtract the cutter size)

- Setup of the frame is needed. Don't expect the frame to be square and straight.

- The frame will flex somewhat under load if you run too fast.


In summary, you buy one of those to get around building a basic frame.

 

[Hopkins]

I have a larger version of the same kind of machine. (mine is a 6040) the quality is difficult to predict as there are many people in the far east selling these with different configurations. From my experience there are a few things to watch out for:

- The electronics are junk and needs to be replaced. A Gecko 540 and a Smoothstepper will get you pretty far. The stepper motors and power supplies will probably be ok if you are aware of their limitations.

- The cutting area is smaller than the table. (You also have to subtract the cutter size)

- Setup of the frame is needed. Don't expect the frame to be square and straight.

- The frame will flex somewhat under load if you run too fast.


In summary, you buy one of those to get around building a basic frame.

So is the stepper motor and power supply complete junk, or is it something that can be upgraded as they crap out?

Cutting area isn't that big of a deal to me really. The main thing I want this for is for cutting MOP inlay material and inlaying headstock caps.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Hmm. I seem to have missed this thread (probably a self-inflicted hiatus from here - I do that from time to time.) I happen to have a 19 year old ShopBot (probably one of the few cable drive ShopBots still around) from back in the uni-strut, sliding glass door bearing, and stepper motors era. Mounted on a wood table of my design/fabrication. I had to step off the shopbot upgrade treadmill as it was doubling the price of the machine every year to keep up (they started as "low cost" and went "a lot more expensive" PDQ - rack and pinion drives, servo motors, etc, etc.)

It has also always been a bit of a disappointment on the software front (I guess the expensive current price supposedly includes some more useful SW.) The SW that runs it (controller) requires a DOS PC (for my era hardware), and that's been a bit harder to do as time passes. I was helping a kid with a 3D printer and kinda grasped that there might now be some open-source software and hardware I might retrofit to get the old thing more useful (I've also got Acme rods in hand as I have been thinking about a screw-drive chassis on a smaller scale than the 4x8 cable drive bed anyway). I have not really followed that down the rabbit hole yet, but it's got me thinking about resurrection and HW/SW update, since the old stuff is mostly not supported (barely even acknowledged) by its former makers, and prone to the occasional bug.

I don't seem to have any particularly lovely (or even clear) pictures of it. Hears a crummy one with some stuff piled on the table.

 

[charlie monroe]

Just a suggestion, have you ever built anything with 80/20 extruded aluminum?

Might want to look into it, extra cost involved but welding the aluminum can be an issue when trying to keep tolerances. Shimming will correct but labor intensive.

I engineer, fabricate and build equipment, your app is reasonably light duty, may be worthwhile.

Isn't that what he used? It looks to my untrained eye.

 

[D-Smith]

The SW that runs it (controller) requires a DOS PC (for my era hardware), and that's been a bit harder to do as time passes.

but it's got me thinking about resurrection and HW/SW update, since the old stuff is mostly not supported (barely even acknowledged) by its former makers, and prone to the occasional bug.

I don't seem to have any particularly lovely (or even clear) pictures of it.

My CNC is a Techno-Isel, made on Long Island. It's a "light industrial" machine and has been pretty much bomb-proof, but the company went out of business a couple years ago. One of the guys that worked there now runs a business supporting the machines with all the stepper motors, gears, belts, etc.. Problem is, who knows how long that will last? One day he may just disappear also.

As far as computers go, I have to keep two out of date computers running in my shop. One is for the cnc which runs off a PCI controller card, and they don't put those slots in computers anymore, it's all pci-express. In fact, I just bought an 8 year old refurbished PC on ebay yesterday for backup. I can't complain too much, it was $109 shipped. I also have to keep another computer to run the CAM software which only works on a 32-bit machine, and uses a "dongle" that keeps you from running the program unless it's plugged into a printer port or the back of the computer. Of course, no one puts those printer ports on computers anymore, they've all gone to USB. Also, I think I've tried to make that program run on Window 7 32-bit and it doesn't work, so that computer has to stay XP.

 

[scottyd]

Isn't that what he used? It looks to my untrained eye.

Good eye, its made from linear rail. C-beam rail for the lower two main beams, really stout stuff. The rest is a mixture of 20/60 and 20/40 linear rail. All is a type of extrusion, just machined for the rollers.

 

[scottyd]

My CNC is a Techno-Isel, made on Long Island. It's a "light industrial" machine and has been pretty much bomb-proof, but the company went out of business a couple years ago. One of the guys that worked there now runs a business supporting the machines with all the stepper motors, gears, belts, etc.. Problem is, who knows how long that will last? One day he may just disappear also.

As far as computers go, I have to keep two out of date computers running in my shop. One is for the cnc which runs off a PCI controller card, and they don't put those slots in computers anymore, it's all pci-express. In fact, I just bought an 8 year old refurbished PC on ebay yesterday for backup. I can't complain too much, it was $109 shipped. I also have to keep another computer to run the CAM software which only works on a 32-bit machine, and uses a "dongle" that keeps you from running the program unless it's plugged into a printer port or the back of the computer. Of course, no one puts those printer ports on computers anymore, they've all gone to USB. Also, I think I've tried to make that program run on Window 7 32-bit and it doesn't work, so that computer has to stay XP.

Are you using Mach3? I recently found out that there are work arounds so that you can use an Ethernet instead of the parallel port, I dont know all of the details... I am using Windows 7 64bit on my machine for cad/cam stuff and an old laptop with xp for the machine controller. They have now released Mach4 which works with the newer OS and 64 bit. It's pricey however.

 

[D-Smith]

For the controller software I use the one from Techno that was supplied with the machine. Now that they are out of business, no more upgrades I guess! But, it works pretty much flawlessly, so no complaints there. The CAM software is an old version of Visual Mill. That one I could upgrade if I needed to, but for the stuff I use it for I don't see any need to. The most complex things I use it for are 3-D routing tops and backs and it does a great job.

 

[Smilodon]

So is the stepper motor and power supply complete junk, or is it something that can be upgraded as they crap out?

Cutting area isn't that big of a deal to me really. The main thing I want this for is for cutting MOP inlay material and inlaying headstock caps.

The power supply and stepper motors seems to be ok quality, but they are slightly weak. Usually there isn't any issue, but a stepper that runs close to it's limit is prone to loose steps which isn't a problem for the machine, but your workpiece will most likely be ruined.

BTW, if the machine you are looking into have a VFD motor driver for the spindle i strongly recommend that you rewire it with a good quality shielded cable. The noise from VFDs tend to be nasty.

 

[Hopkins]

The power supply and stepper motors seems to be ok quality, but they are slightly weak. Usually there isn't any issue, but a stepper that runs close to it's limit is prone to loose steps which isn't a problem for the machine, but your workpiece will most likely be ruined.

BTW, if the machine you are looking into have a VFD motor driver for the spindle i strongly recommend that you rewire it with a good quality shielded cable. The noise from VFDs tend to be nasty.

It runs on single phase 120 volt power so I am pretty sure its not VFD controlled. I don't believe it is possible for an inverter to convert 120v power to 220v 3phase, and they don't make frequency drives to control a single phase motor. I am sure that is what is helping to keep the cost down.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

It runs on single phase 120 volt power so I am pretty sure its not VFD controlled. I don't believe it is possible for an inverter to convert 120v power to 220v 3phase, and they don't make frequency drives to control a single phase motor. I am sure that is what is helping to keep the cost down.

I doubt your low-cost machine does that, but it's quite possible to have 120VAC 1 phase in and 220V 3 phase variable frequency out (for small horsepower):

Link Removed

My shopbot uses a PC690 strapped to the carriage. If I get the SW/HW updates sorted, a much quieter spindle would be a nice upgrade. I do get tired of listening to that thing scream. I'd probably feed it 220V, though, since a 1 phase to 3 phase VFD powered by 220 that can drive much more horsepower is easy to come by.

 

[Hopkins]

I doubt your low-cost machine does that, but it's quite possible to have 120VAC 1 phase in and 220V 3 phase variable frequency out (for small horsepower):

Link Removed

My shopbot uses a PC690 strapped to the carriage. If I get the SW/HW updates sorted, a much quieter spindle would be a nice upgrade. I do get tired of listening to that thing scream. I'd probably feed it 220V, though, since a 1 phase to 3 phase VFD powered by 220 that can drive much more horsepower is easy to come by.

Yes it can be done, but only on very small motors, I doubt you would find one rated for anything over 1/2 hp. I deal with alot of VFD's at work but our smallest motor will be 1hp so 240 volt to 230v 3 phase will be the smallest we deal with.

As far as the machine in question, the spindle is a DC motor so that pretty much eliminates the possibility of a VFD

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Yes it can be done, but only on very small motors, I doubt you would find one rated for anything over 1/2 hp.

The GS1 series offers only 1/4 and 1/2 - the GS2 bumps it up to 1 horse, but that's as far as it goes, and unless you need "easy plug-in to 120VAC outlet portability" there's not much point in going there, particularly for any quasi-fixed equipment or equipment in a shop where you've run 240VAC outlets (as pretty much any shop should have, ideally, IMHO.) If you have 3 phase input available, better yet (that's "generate my own" or many miles of non-economical powerline extension away, in my case, so I don't consider it much.)

 

[Hopkins]

The GS1 series offers only 1/4 and 1/2 - the GS2 bumps it up to 1 horse, but that's as far as it goes, and unless you need "easy plug-in to 120VAC outlet portability" there's not much point in going there, particularly for any quasi-fixed equipment or equipment in a shop where you've run 240VAC outlets (as pretty much any shop should have, ideally, IMHO.) If you have 3 phase input available, better yet (that's "generate my own" or many miles of non-economical powerline extension away, in my case, so I don't consider it much.)

Yeah, that is really pushing it for that VFD, I bet it makes alot of heat. VFD's are handy if you need to control speed, otherwise they aren't really necessary.

 

[earlysecond]

I want to play here, in this thread BUT am not up to the task! Can't comment but have read it all with great interest so keep it up!

OK, pardon the interruption, as you were.

 

[scottyd]

I ordered a set of Nema 23 600 oz in steppers for it... beastmode..