My Spine and Bass Guitar

[_Obra_]

This video is my attempt to show a problem I've had with my spine for years, which is largely caused by the way I sit while playing.
Dr. Aleksandar Dejanovic was the first one to notice the cause of my problem and not just treat the consequences. I hope my experience will help anyone who plays music and has similar back problems.

 

[Geepers]

Excellent! Thankyou

 

[Gopherbassist]

Thanks for the video! Lots of great information.

I know doctors are busy, but would it be possible for you to ask Dr. Dejanovic if he could privide some insight into the information in a book like Leisner's "Playing with Ease?

Leisner | Playing with Ease (Paperback)

Strings By Mail Leisner | Playing with Ease (Paperback) - A Healthy Approach to Guitar Technique David Leisner Playing with Ease is a book about ergonomic technique for the guitar, as well as other instruments. Renowned classical guitarist David Leisner offers an introduction to the basic...

www.stringsbymail.com

Andre Fludd on YouTube also has some videos on his experiences with the effects of longterm playing on the body. He shares his experiences and provides a bit of information about the treatments he has tried.



There are also a other books on the subject matter as well, I have no experience with these, but they look interesting.

Treating Musicians As Athletes: Practical management of Musicians' injuries From Ergonomics to Focal Dystonia
by Saba Kamal

Treating Musicians As Athletes: Practical management of Musicians' injuries From Ergonomics to Focal Dystonia

Barnes & Noble’s online bookstore for books, NOOK ebooks & magazines. Shop music, movies, toys & games, too. Receive free shipping with your Barnes & Noble Membership.

www.barnesandnoble.com

The Athletic Musician: A Guide to Playing Without Pain by Barbara Paull and Christine Harrison

Amazon.com

This one is a little old, so I do wonder if it is beginning to become out of date or not.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Yeah, I sit too much either at computer or in front of TV, but have never been able to play sitting, so that isn't an issue. I do have a bad back, from a boating incident in my early 40's, almost 30 years ago. Herniated a disc at L3. My two playing related issues as a result are just the weight of the bass itself, and the weight I add to the body if I allow my forearm to rest on it while plucking. That sometimes happens if I am plucking over the bridge or close to the neck. Seems I cannot get the body low enough on the strap while still being able to fret properly with the left hand. More of an issue with FSOs than with Ibanez SRs.

Some TBrs have recommended playing the bass with neck held up at a 45 degree angle, but I have not been able to do that.

 

[Dincrest]

Good stuff.

Whenever I play seated (which is rare. I dislike playing seated. I like to play standing), I always play using classical guitar position so I'm not all hunched over when I'm playing.

I'm all about lifting with my legs when carrying gear and stuff.

I'm all about proper posture and technique when lifting (since I enjoy weight lifting at the gym).

Also, ballroom dancing (which I took up 1.5 years ago) helps a lot with posture. Like I lift my arms up while activating my lats to get good dance posture and I do that now while playing bass, which allows me to stand up straighter, and utilize better technique. No slouchy posture.

I'm not getting any younger (I turn 48 in May) and I LOVE being active and dancing around on stage, but having taller posture allows me to create presence with less movement, improves my technique, and helps my basses (which are under 9 pounds) feel lighter.

Learn your body, learn your physiology, work with it...

 

[Watchootognbout]

At 15:34 He gets straight to the point."Anytime you can play Classical style"
This is the way I play when I sit.
And I use a strap while I sit.

 

[retslock]

Very good information. Thank you.

 

[BassicJazzy]

At 15:34 He gets straight to the point."Anytime you can play Classical style"
This is the way I play when I sit.
And I use a strap while I sit.
View attachment 7476702

The only one of my 6 basses that I can play that way is my ABG, an Ovation Premier elite. And I play it with a strap even seated. My other basses sit too high when resting on my leg.

 

[_Obra_]

Thanks for the video! Lots of great information.

I know doctors are busy, but would it be possible for you to ask Dr. Dejanovic if he could privide some insight into the information in a book like Leisner's "Playing with Ease?

Leisner | Playing with Ease (Paperback)

Strings By Mail Leisner | Playing with Ease (Paperback) - A Healthy Approach to Guitar Technique David Leisner Playing with Ease is a book about ergonomic technique for the guitar, as well as other instruments. Renowned classical guitarist David Leisner offers an introduction to the basic...

www.stringsbymail.com

Andre Fludd on YouTube also has some videos on his experiences with the effects of longterm playing on the body. He shares his experiences and provides a bit of information about the treatments he has tried.



There are also a other books on the subject matter as well, I have no experience with these, but they look interesting.

Treating Musicians As Athletes: Practical management of Musicians' injuries From Ergonomics to Focal Dystonia
by Saba Kamal

Treating Musicians As Athletes: Practical management of Musicians' injuries From Ergonomics to Focal Dystonia

Barnes & Noble’s online bookstore for books, NOOK ebooks & magazines. Shop music, movies, toys & games, too. Receive free shipping with your Barnes & Noble Membership.

www.barnesandnoble.com

The Athletic Musician: A Guide to Playing Without Pain by Barbara Paull and Christine Harrison

Amazon.com

This one is a little old, so I do wonder if it is beginning to become out of date or not.

Thanks,
I'll show him

 

[_Obra_]

Good stuff.

Whenever I play seated (which is rare. I dislike playing seated. I like to play standing), I always play using classical guitar position so I'm not all hunched over when I'm playing.

I'm all about lifting with my legs when carrying gear and stuff.

I'm all about proper posture and technique when lifting (since I enjoy weight lifting at the gym).

Also, ballroom dancing (which I took up 1.5 years ago) helps a lot with posture. Like I lift my arms up while activating my lats to get good dance posture and I do that now while playing bass, which allows me to stand up straighter, and utilize better technique. No slouchy posture.

I'm not getting any younger (I turn 48 in May) and I LOVE being active and dancing around on stage, but having taller posture allows me to create presence with less movement, improves my technique, and helps my basses (which are under 9 pounds) feel lighter.

Learn your body, learn your physiology, work with it...

I'm not getting any younger to - I turn 48 this April

 

[LanciaY10]

Like Janek Gwizdala or Hadrien Feraud I've adopted the classical guitar sitting position with a stool. With my shoulders issues (both shoulders, but different causes) I've been lucky to have 2 specialists who are both cellist, one for chronic pain, and the other for arts and sports medicine, Dr Bickert in France, to check my problems.

So they know what it's like to sit and having to play a large musical instrument. Cellists have no choice than sitting. Basically I have to work CONSCIOUSLY on decreasing the level of my shoulder blades: the problem with that classical guitar sitting position with a bass + not being tall as I am is that I was raising up my shoulders, resulting in pains in scalens muscles in my neck that were going thru all the shoulder then arms then... wrist, hand, fingers ! it's called Complex Regional Pain Syndrom, I'm still under amitriptyline, not for depression, but for neuropathic pain. I'm getting better and went down from 30 drops/day to now 15, but all in all it took more than 3 years ! I'm a righty, my left fretting hand is still swollen between the index and middle finger, but it's not painfull anymore. It has been for a long time, couldn't drive, couldn't play, couldn't do my job: bass lessons.

What has GREATLY helped me have been TENS --> Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation (nice name for a fusion band don't ya think ? ) . I still do some sessions at home for my shoulders, wrists, hands. But since I started to do the TENS sessions more than a year ago, 3 hours a day at the beginning, it all went better and now I can play without feeling pain.

Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GenXer too, I'll be 53 next month.

 

[Dincrest]

I'm not getting any younger to - I turn 48 this April

So we're practically the same age then. Happy birthday whenever that may be.

And, yeah, with age I've had to rethink a lot. I love riding bicycles but nowadays I need to go more for distance miles than speed miles since my joints aren't what they used to be. Or when I lift at the gym, as much as I want to feel like Big McLargeHuge benching heavy weight, that can put strain on my aging joints so it's better I lighten up and do more reps. I'll still get strength gains, but in such a way that my frame can support them.

And even with bass gear, light weight is not the end all be all. I've seen tons of gripes about the new Tobias Growlers. They're under 7 pounds (pawlonia bodies) and look like they'd balance well with those long upper horns... but they don't. They neck dive and "fighting" a bass to hold the neck up can put more strain than a slightly heavier bass that has suitable ergonomics for you. Of course, if a bass is too heavy (even with ideal ergonomics) shouldering it for a long time is fatiguing.

And since I'm more conscious of my posture and everything from having taken up ballroom dancing a year-and-a-half ago, I'm applying that to bass and while it feels like I'm re-learning my physical approach to it, it already feels better.

 

[SC Bassboy]

This video is my attempt to show a problem I've had with my spine for years, which is largely caused by the way I sit while playing.
Dr. Aleksandar Dejanovic was the first one to notice the cause of my problem and not just treat the consequences. I hope my experience will help anyone who plays music and has similar back problems.

I had some serious neck issues two years back. My left shoulder would crap up for weeks after intense practicing. After multiple scans and x-rays the doctor finally pinpointed the issue, two vertebrae were rubbing against each other when my neck was in playing position. Essentially, 30 years of playing bass had caused my neck to start disintegrating. Two fused vertebrae later and now my right shoulder hurts. We truely suffer for art.

 

[logdrum]

That doctor works out. He is fit.

 

[Gopherbassist]

Cellists have no choice than sitting.

That's not entirely true.

 

[winston]

Thanks @_Obra_ for sharing this, I've enjoyed your bass videos for some time. It's great you've found a caring, observant doctor who could help you!

People bag on Scott's Bass Lessons for a number of reasons (usually the algorithm-feeding)…I'm a subscriber but I think it's incredibly bad advice when Scott tells players to rest the bass on the right leg when seated without giving equal time to classical style. Both ergonomically, and the fact that if you also play standing up with a strap, the geometry is different - what worked sitting down in the practice room may not on the gig.

The majority of ergonomic issues I had went away when I decided to keep the bass in the same position seated/standing (classical).

 

[Bertr]

Great video! Thanks to you and the doc for making it. (I also loved the ELAN skis and the Tesla quote on the wall).

 

[LanciaY10]

Hi, so today I bought a 2€ used coffee table on Leboncoin (the french Craigslist), only had to drive 10 minutes back and forth. Put casters under et voilà, no back broken anymore, I started to feel some pain weeks ago doing the same wrong movements as you, even with the classical guitar posture, and when I saw that thread I just told myself "it's just... obvious !". My doctor and my kinesiologist will be happy

Wow sorry I'm not good at taking pictures with a smartphone

15 bucks with the casters.

When I don't practice nor record, I just roll the table on to the side so I can get closer to the desk. Nothing to unplug/replug.

 

[Watchootognbout]

The only one of my 6 basses that I can play that way ..................................My other basses sit too high when resting on my leg.

You have to sit on the very edge of your stool or seat so that your bass hangs below.
(example in My pic above)

 

[Giffro]

This video is my attempt to show a problem I've had with my spine for years, which is largely caused by the way I sit while playing.
Dr. Aleksandar Dejanovic was the first one to notice the cause of my problem and not just treat the consequences. I hope my experience will help anyone who plays music and has similar back problems.