My ThunderFunk

[vanselus]

I've got the funds to get a good amp for around $1000 (preferably slightly less, but whatever...). Narrowed down my choices to the Thunderfunk or the Ashdown ABM500 but I have my mind open for other suggestions

currently have an 8 ohm Epifani T-210 as a cab, and within time I plan to add another Epi, either a 112 or a 115

my main band is a Reggae band. I am playing a Fender P Bass. as with any Reggae sound I am going after the big huge deep BASS tone

I have been playing the TF into Epi cabs too - great combination IMHO. The TF is incredibly tight in the low registers and doesn't balk at all when you throw it large volumes of low - pretty uncommon. If you favor a really tight but huge sound, the TF should work well. If you're looking for a pillowy tone thats warmer and "POOFIER", and is a bit less articulate, then the Ashdown is probably more to spec.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I don't understand why this issue is a deal-breaker but I do see the point. Namely, that the tone coming out of the amp might sound good through the bass speakers, but not through the PA. Even if speakers aren't a factor: a tone that sounds good onstage might not be best for the FOH mix. Also, I've always preferred pre-EQ DI so I could have the freedom to tweak onstage without interfering with the FOH mix.

I guess if you use some speakers that seriously color the sound and you have to EQ the amp for that it could be an issue. I'm far removed from that situation I prefer that my stage tone to go to the house. It's the sound I want to hear and that I'd want my audience to hear and enjoy, too.

The part that really mystifies me is dismissing the amp out of hand because of an easy workaround "issue". I wouldn't refuse to buy something because I thought I had to use a direct box with it.

IMO (and the soundpeople I've run it to) the TF's DI is very nice.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe I can shed a little light here. I agree 100% about using a DI if you want the uncolored bass sound to get to the FOH. I always bring along a DI for that very reason.

But I know where rok51 is coming from with not wanting to send a post-EQ signal to the house. I've often found that if you use your amp EQ at all (and of course not everyone does), the adjustments required to get a sound you like onstage are not necessarily the same adjustments that yield a good sound for the FOH (depending on the nature and size of the system, the venue, the mix, bla bla). So rather than have the FOH engineer undo something you did, or redo something you undid, it's often simpler and more effective to just send an un-EQ'd signal. At least, that's been my experience.

Understood. So far I've never been in that situation but I can see where somebody else might. I don't get it being a mandatory feature on an amp.

From what I've seen, it shouldn't be a huge design problem to insert a pre-EQ/post-EQ switch. Quite a few modern amps have them. I'm sure more is involved than soldering two wires, but it ain't rocket science either.

I don't know what's involved.

All that said, I'm with you in being a tad mystified. Personally, I can well understand wanting a pre-EQ send (I used to bug Carvin about that years ago before they added that feature), but I wouldn't let the absence of a pre-EQ send be a dealbreaker for me if I really liked an amp. Not when a perfectly good solution (i.e., using a DI) is so easily and relatively cheaply available.

rok51, if you're reading, this isn't meant as a slam or a flame, I'd just hate to see you rule out something that might be great for you when there's a pretty easy workaround.

And I'll add that I wasn't trying to slam or flame rok51 either. For me, tossing a Countryman or whatever into a gigbag is no big deal or expense... if I ever needed to. Heck, I'm trying to think of a soundperson I worked with who didn't already have DIs. Use the amp's or use theirs. Problem solved.

 

[Thunderfunk]

And I'll add that I wasn't trying to slam or flame rok51 either. For me, tossing a Countryman or whatever into a gigbag is no big deal or expense... if I ever needed to. Heck, I'm trying to think of a soundperson I worked with who didn't already have DIs. Use the amp's or use theirs. Problem solved.

And not to be confused, the TFB420 does have a buffered DI pre-EQ out. It's just not a balanced line. So, there's nothing wrong with plugging a transformer in to make it a balanced send. It's just that not everyone is going to want to add $200 to the price of the amp for something that most guys never use.

Dave Funk

 

[Arranger]

I can see the value of a pre-EQ send. Without it, every time you tweak your personal EQ on stage, your going to mess with the FOH mix and drive the mix boys nuts.

The standard 1/4" out is probably OK for me, though.

 

[metron]

I can see the value of a pre-EQ send. Without it, every time you tweak your personal EQ on stage, your going to mess with the FOH mix and drive the mix boys nuts.

The standard 1/4" out is probably OK me, though.

Not only the EQ but volume too. At least thats the way it is on my preamp. I always use the pre EQ send because otherwise you change the volume sent to the PA everytime you turn up your amp. There are ways around this but I like to use the volume on the pre to adjust my amp level only.

Also Ive found that whetever PA is being used at the gig (good quality or not) colors the sound in its own way whether or not its an EQd signal.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I guess if you use some speakers that seriously color the sound and you have to EQ the amp for that it could be an issue. I'm far removed from that situation I prefer that my stage tone to go to the house. It's the sound I want to hear and that I'd want my audience to hear and enjoy, too.

I disagree that only those with "colorful" speakers need be concerned about having pre-EQ DI, and likewise disagree that the use of EQ is to correct for deficiencies in gear (must be nice never having to deal with poor room acoustics). I could argue back that those who want their colorful stage tone to go to the house should mic their stage rig rather than messing with any kind of DI.

The part that really mystifies me is dismissing the amp out of hand because of an easy workaround "issue". I wouldn't refuse to buy something because I thought I had to use a direct box with it.

I totally agree there. I bring a Countryman DI to every gig even though I've only used it a couple of times in the past decade (I normally get no PA support). Inexpensive DI's can work just fine, and most sound companies carry a few types.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Not only the EQ but volume too. At least thats the way it is on my preamp. I always use the pre EQ send because otherwise you change the volume sent to the PA everytime you turn up your amp. There are ways around this but I like to use the volume on the pre to adjust my amp level only.

Also Ive found that whetever PA is being used at the gig (good quality or not) colors the sound in its own way whether or not its an EQd signal.

Good points! Regarding the latter: I'm sure my bass rig is superior to some PA systems. But better or worse is irrelevant: the fact is, it's going to behave differently if for no other reasons than configuration and location.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I disagree that only those with "colorful" speakers need be concerned about having pre-EQ DI, and likewise disagree that the use of EQ is to correct for deficiencies in gear (must be nice never having to deal with poor room acoustics). I could argue back that those who want their colorful stage tone to go to the house should mic their stage rig rather than messing with any kind of DI.

Interesting "disagreement"

I didn't say "only".



You could indeed argue back... but you wouldn't be arguing with me.

BTW I have had to deal with poor room acoustics, many times. Not once has that involved me tweaking my amp's EQ.
What it has involved is me tweaking the EQ on my bass and/or my technique. One of the simplest things is something I do anyway... watch my volume.

In that same vein, I don't vary my amp's volume to the FOH, I set it at the beginning of the gig and work back from there. My main volume control is my hands... I've yet to have a problem with a sound person because I've backed off the max signal I was sending them with my hands.

YMMV, of course.

I totally agree there. I bring a Countryman DI to every gig even though I've only used it a couple of times in the past decade (I normally get no PA support). Inexpensive DI's can work just fine, and most sound companies carry a few types.

I'm just baffled by the scenario. If I came across an amp that sounded great to me and met my every need "except" for this one and because of that I wouldn't buy it... makes no sense to me.

 

[plankspanker04]

just wanted to offer a thought as i see both sides of this.i travel alot and i have gotten to the point where i take my rack(power amp/pre)and have a cab provided when i get there.i used to rent a whole rig but have had too many bad experiences and you never know what you are in for there. i feel i better my chances with my own rack.i wouldnt want to fly my cabs around. any way i have had situations where a soundman might ask me do add this or cut that and by the time he gets what he wants i dont like it where im at.in my case its much simpler to switch to pre eq ,especially on the fly.i see the bennifit of having the option.

however finding your own sound is a never ending search.i ,like brad and others here,would not walk away from an amp that had the tone for me because it did not have this feature.i would prefer to go through a little extra effort and use my di. soundmen,and women,tend to do what they want anyway(no offense)as they have their own ideas as to what your bass should sound like. so no matter what you send them you are somewhat at their mercy.(dont piss em off i will make sure i have what i need on stage no matter what i have to go through.

 

[Brad Johnson]

just wanted to offer a thought as i see both sides of this.i travel alot and i have gotten to the point where i take my rack(power amp/pre)and have a cab provided when i get there.i used to rent a whole rig but have had too many bad experiences and you never know what you are in for there. i feel i better my chances with my own rack.i wouldnt want to fly my cabs around. any way i have had situations where a soundman might ask me do add this or cut that and by the time he gets what he wants i dont like it where im at.in my case its much simpler to switch to pre eq ,especially on the fly.i see the bennifit of having the option.

however finding your own sound is a never ending search.i ,like brad and others here,would not walk away from an amp that had the tone for me because it did not have this feature.i would prefer to go through a little extra effort and use my di. soundmen,and women,tend to do what they want anyway(no offense)as they have their own ideas as to what your bass should sound like. so no matter what you send them you are somewhat at their mercy.(dont piss em off i will make sure i have what i need on stage no matter what i have to go through.

That's my thinking too. They usually do what they're going to do anyway. FOH is theirs, the stage is mine (plus monitors).