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narrowed down to mtd, sadowsky, lakland

#122
jcsgroove said:
Brad,I'm sure you probably know that Bubby sometimes used nylon strings on his MTD's with Snoop...a whole different vibe altogether.

I'm glad you're pointing them in the direction that it's the player and not necessarily the bass.
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Sure do. The funny thing about using nylon strings or better yet playing fretless IME is that learning how to do either one can translate over on basses where you don't have the same thing. The feel can transfer... with you. That's why so many folks heard a fretless even when Jaco was playing fretted. I get people telling me that I have a fretless sound quite often IRL. When I'm going for that vibe I guess I do. Then I can switch it up and it's gone... without changing anything other than what I'm doing. I played fretless as my main instrument, regardless of genre, for several years. Still play it, just not often enough.

I'm trying to drive home the point that often way too much emphasis is put on the bass. It's pretty enlightening when you're struggling to get someone else's tone on your bass, someone who plays something other than what you do, and they grab your bass and there it is. What do you do then?
:D

And since it really hasn't been mentioned before... yes, you can use different strings on MTDs:D. I've tried strings that made a bass sound horrible and others that made the clouds part. Nothing else about the bass changed. Figure out what works best for you.
 
#123
YEP!! That's why I brought up Andrew's use of light gauge strings and Bubby's nylon strings...all that stuff matters when you're searching for a sound! It takes time but,it's totally worth it in the end!

As for Jaco,anyone that saw his instructional DVD probably overlooked the fact he was playing fretted in the jam sessions...still sounded like his fretless which totally proves your point!! I know I missed it until I'd watched it about 5-6 times! hahaha!
 
#124
LakeEffect said:
I suspect... your reading comprehension skills could use a tune up. I didn't mention 'urban gospel', in fact I am very familiar with how much I know about that genre - none. I have never once listened to an 'urban gospel' artist. Sure there are great ones, just can't say I've given them a listen.

That said, I'm very familiar with R&B and Hip-hop - as my first post plainly stated. I think the MTD would be fine for a more 'pop' rendition of those sounds (from the little I do know about the genre I would expect there is a certain element of modern/pop sound in Gospel). But most R&B and Hip-Hop does not make use of that tone. An MTD will not sit as naturally as other basses in many R&B and Hip-hop settings.

Bass12 - Love the Badu album, haven't heard the other, I'll have to check it out. I trust anyone who praises Live.
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Fair enough, you did not mention Urban Gospel, only R&B. Still the OP mentioned Urban Gospel, and any bass player into contemporary black music should have some familiarity with a Urban Gospel. That said, I am far from a Hip Hop head and I know about Bubby Lewis and Rawbiz, both of whom are MTD users who play HipHop, R&B, and Gospel.
 
#126
LakeEffect said:
I suspect... your reading comprehension skills could use a tune up. I didn't mention 'urban gospel', in fact I am very familiar with how much I know about that genre - none. I have never once listened to an 'urban gospel' artist. Sure there are great ones, just can't say I've given them a listen.

That said, I'm very familiar with R&B and Hip-hop - as my first post plainly stated. I think the MTD would be fine for a more 'pop' rendition of those sounds (from the little I do know about the genre I would expect there is a certain element of modern/pop sound in Gospel). But most R&B and Hip-Hop does not make use of that tone. An MTD will not sit as naturally as other basses in many R&B and Hip-hop settings.

Bass12 - Love the Badu album, haven't heard the other, I'll have to check it out. I trust anyone who praises Live.
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David Dyson isn't on any of Me'shell's albums but he was her bassist for a tour or two. I thought his MTD, while different from Me'shell's Jazz, suited the sound very well. Here's a clip:
 
#128
bass12 said:
Thank you and right back at you. Great feel and phrasing on that Michael Jackson tribute!
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Aw man,thanks!!! It's funny,on your track,you can't even tell it's an MTD.I know sometimes MTD's have a distinct tone but,some players don't seem to understand you can still affect the sound with a little research...and a little trial and error.
 
#129
For the three you listed I would personally lean toward the Sadowsky.

I've played the 536 (amazing instrument) and the 5594 (also amazing). To me the 535 was very full range and less punchy. Likely the particular bass and not the entire line.

Loved my 5594, amazing feel and great tone. But at times I felt it also needed something. I decided eventually it was the Hanson preamp, just too polite at times IMO.

Rogers basses on the other hand...always punchy, always comfortable.

In the same genre of bass I would say check out an LEJ as well. The Low End basses are every bit fit, finish, and tone as any super J.
 
#130
MY JOB IS TO MAKE YOU DANCE!

Great man, good!
Yours is among the best in the world

I already tried and contributed MHE to this beautiful (and quite challengin') 3D

But, riskin' to go OT
I still wanted to greet you fantastic motto

Nice to "virtually" meet you Jackie

Cheers,
Wallace
 
#131
Wallace320 said:
MY JOB IS TO MAKE YOU DANCE!

Great man, good!
Yours is among the best in the world

I already tried and contributed MHE to this beautiful (and quite challengin') 3D

But, riskin' to go OT
I still wanted to greet you fantastic motto

Nice to "virtually" meet you Jackie

Cheers,
Wallace
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Hey Wallace,thanks brother!! I saw your post the other day and just so you'll know,the 55-02 Lakland basses have the same pickups and preamps as the 55-94 basses!

At least in the older models with the Bartolinis...The 55-01 had the Korean-made Bartolini pickups.

If you're looking for a Lakland,I'd try to find an older model(before 2006).

Great to meet you here!!!

JC
 
#135
I would've gone with the mtd because i love that boom and sizzle and I think its a perfect bass for urban gospel, hip hop r&b, only if i didnt have to worry about cutting through the mix :( Ill be playing in various places where there wont be the best sound system and sound guy. I know Andrew Gouche is doing great with his mtd and i love it. Maybe he has a good sound guy? Perfect rig for the mtd to cut through?
 
#136
Brad Johnson said:
Always good to see you here, Jackie.

This is a great example of knowing how to get what you want. Chances are high that if you plop five other bassists down in that chair, the results won't be the same.
:cool:



Find something you like to play and play it. Don't let others' inabilities hinder you. If you truly believe what others say can't happen, imagine how annoyed you might be years down the road if/when you find out they were wrong?
:D

OP, you likely won't have to spend $3500 to find something that really clicks with you. What do you have available where you are?
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Pretty much everthing is available to buy,just hard to try them all.
 
#137
An MTD can't cut through the mix?? What are you guys talking about?

I don't know how this became the consensus.

My impression has always been just the opposite. Every time I hear an MTD live, I wonder if the bass could blend better or sound more "traditional" as opposed to being so prominent in the mix.

I can't think of a more bold sounding bass off the top of my head.... maybe Alembic?
 
#139
marc40a said:
An MTD can't cut through the mix?? What are you guys talking about?

I don't know how this became the consensus.

My impression has always been just the opposite. Every time I hear an MTD live, I wonder if the bass could blend better or sound more "traditional" as opposed to being so prominent in the mix.

I can't think of a more bold sounding bass off the top of my head.... maybe Alembic?
Click to expand...

Since we are kind of back on track, your post is a good one. Depends on how the OP describes 'cuts through the mix'. 'Blending better and possibly sounding more traditional' is a valid definition of 'cutting through the mix';) Of course, sitting way under the band, and slamming upper treble through the mains is also another valid definition of 'cutting through the mix'!

Again, as I posted earlier, every bass will sound good with a good player playing it, but each of the three instruments he is considering has very different tonality, design goals, and inherent tone profile. As I posted earlier (and is shown nicely by the clip of the MTD with alder/RW spec's), the active pickups combined with pickup placing combined with the very wide and pure OEM Bart preamp in the MTD basses make them, IMO, quite sensitive to various woods used in construction, and the alder/RW combination (especially if you have dead strings) brings the MTD tone, in general, a bit more focused to sit, again, above the bass drum and under the cymbals (i.e., a bit more 'traditional').

Any good player can pretty much make any bass work and sound good, but having just a little knowledge about the design goals of the builder, and how the electronics (especially pickup placement and type of pickups) impact the general tone of the instrument through the low end, mids, and top end, can really help a player find an instrument that has the highest potential of working for him/her, given the current situation with retail (i.e., hard to try before buy).

Luckily, some of these Luthier's, like Sadowksy, have a no questions asked return policy, although that could still be a problem for the OP who lives across the pond from Brooklyn!

All good stuff though.

No wrong or right answer here, but these basses all feel and sound quite different. As many have heard with all those clips I've put up over the years, yes, I always sound like me, but sometimes I 'sound like me' playing a P Bass, and sometimes I sound like be playing a 70's J, and sometimes I sound like me playing an MTD or Roscoe:D:p:hiding: All those basses make me play a bit differently and definitely sound VERY different through a large, full range front of house system.
 
#140
I will just add to above comments that IME the context of the mix has a LOT to do with my perception of how a given bass slots into the mix.

For example, the Tobias instruments (and keep in mind they have massive variation depending on Mike's wood choices especially neck), have always been a challenge for me in ensembles with a lot of guitar wash. They seem to shine in a mix with more horns and keys. More space.

In contrast, the Sadowsky preamp seems to stand up much more easily to guitar heavy mixes.

A player can make either situation work. Just depends how much effort you want to put into it vs just focusing on the playing.

That's how these axes have worked for me over the years. Of course, each to their own. For the OP, I would say the main thing is get the basses in question into the ensemble situation you are working with and see how it sits. Sorry but TB won't give you a shortcut, despite the excellent discussion. IMO.
 

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