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NBA Playoff thread 2012

#301
GregC said:
This again? Are you related to Dan Gilbert, Steve?:D He played in Cleveland for seven years--that's a long time, especially when 5 of them are under Mike Brown and management otherwise does a pretty lousy job of drafting.

Where was the Cavs' Pippen? Or Grant? I've long felt the whole "making guys around you better" thing was drastically overstated. A lot of it is simply that those strong supporting players, if your team is savvy enough to draft them, mature and get better over time. Have any of LeBron's old teammates made the All-Star team the past two years?
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You can sum up the Cavs bad management with four words, Carlos Boozer Mike Brown. Brown does not know what an NBA offense looks like. And losing Carlos Boozer who thought he was the second coming of Karl Malone when in reality he was just a good complimentary power forward set them back for years.

As far as not winning in Cleveland, LeBron didn't win in Cleveland because he wasn't ready for prime time (along with the lousy coaching). Remember he couldn't win in Miami last year w/Bosh and Wade. When they had Shaq w/ilgaskis and Antoine Jamerson along w/ Moe Williams they certainly had some good pieces compared to the rest of the league.

As far as running plays and team basketball, while driving the lane and dishing to three point shooters because you're double teamed is certainly a skill it alone is not a quality offense against a good defensive team. And that's what Miami's offense basically consists of. What they do very little of is pick and rolls, back door cuts, double screens, and off guard kick outs off screens, you know basketball plays:scowl:

Were they the best team this year and therefore deserved to win the title? Yep. They weren't the Heat of 06, that had the stripe shirts hand them the title on a platter.
 
#303
burk48237 said:
Were they the best team this year and therefore deserved to win the title? Yep. They weren't the Heat of 06, that had the stripe shirts hand them the title on a platter.
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i disagree.

i really would have enjoyed a heat/spurs final myself.

also, the officials definitely left their mark on this year's playoffs. i will agree it's not as egregious as '06; that's one of the most famous badly officiated series of all time.
 
#306
Eric Perry said:
... Regarding Wade's "injury", I'd be willing to bet he wasn't hurt in the least. Watching him go down on replay did not look even remotely bad.
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It bugs me to no end when people purport to know whether a player is injured or not. If you're not in the locker room you don't know the deal.

Wade manned up and didn't talk about it. If he had, someone might have accused him of "whining about being hurt" ...

Link Removed
 
#308
mellowinman said:
I mean the team, not the city.

Sorry.
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Cool. I am admittedly a little touchy about attacks my home town. It has a lot going for it most people aren't aware of.

I believe the Cavs organization did everything possible to surround LBJ with good players. Unfortunately, the team got average or beyond quickly with LBJ so the draft wasn't very helpful. The free agent classes every years of LBJs tenure in Cleveland were poor (Larry Hughes was actually the best guard available except Joe Johnson- who got a stupid high deal and probably still wasn't enough anyway). I understand why LBJ got frustrated but colluding with his buddy Dwayne Wade and quitting in a playoff game was not right.
 
#311
aborgman said:
Except hiring a competent coach or GM.
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Mike Brown was an average coach, at best. To be honest, I am skeptical a better coach would have mattered. Lebron did not want to be coached. He still doesn't like it but at least this year he's final quiet about his disdain for coaches.

Danny Ferry was a solid GM. He was aggressive in trying to make moves to improve the team but again their weren't any blockbuster moves to be had. No combination of our high salary role players like Z, Larry Hughes, etc, and late round draft picks would have netted a top 15 player. Also, it is believed that LBJ signed off on every move. However, it is known that LBJ made no effort to recruit guys to come to Cleveland. We know why that is now.
 
#312
RS said:
Mike Brown was an average coach, at best. To be honest, I am skeptical a better coach would have mattered. Lebron did not want to be coached. He still doesn't like it but at least this year he's final quiet about his disdain for coaches.

Danny Ferry was a solid GM. He was aggressive in trying to make moves to improve the team but again their weren't any blockbuster moves to be had. No combination of our high salary role players like Z, Larry Hughes, etc, and late round draft picks would have netted a top 15 player. Also, it is believed that LBJ signed off on every move. However, it is known that LBJ made no effort to recruit guys to come to Cleveland. We know why that is now.
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Yeah, If you forget, Bosh was a free agent too and their was talk of him coming to Cleveland to join Lebron. I still think he's the best athlete with basketball skills I've ever seen, but he doesn't have near the Basketball mind or sacrifice for the team mentality of the big three I grew up with (Bird, Magic, and Isaiah).

Think about this, Magic won the NBA final in his rookie year, and in the last game of the finals, Kareem went down so Magic played center. He ended up winning MVP, if it would have been Lebron, he would have taken the game off and spent the whole off season complaining about his teams inability to sign a good backup center.

And for all his abilities, he still doesn't have the leadership skills to will his team to a big win when the other guys aren't having good games.
 
#313
RS said:
Mike Brown was an average coach, at best. To be honest, I am skeptical a better coach would have mattered. Lebron did not want to be coached. He still doesn't like it but at least this year he's final quiet about his disdain for coaches.

Danny Ferry was a solid GM. He was aggressive in trying to make moves to improve the team but again their weren't any blockbuster moves to be had. No combination of our high salary role players like Z, Larry Hughes, etc, and late round draft picks would have netted a top 15 player. Also, it is believed that LBJ signed off on every move. However, it is known that LBJ made no effort to recruit guys to come to Cleveland. We know why that is now.
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So LeBron was intent on leaving the Cavs from the get-go, but waited SEVEN YEARS to do it? Color me skeptical, lol.
 
#314
GregC said:
So LeBron was intent on leaving the Cavs from the get-go, but waited SEVEN YEARS to do it? Color me skeptical, lol.
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Not from the get-go but as soon as 3-4 years into his career. After he and Wade played on the Olympic Team together. There are articles that spell out the whole theory and timeline of how they colluded and Pat Reilly's involvement.
 
#315
burk48237 said:
As far as not winning in Cleveland, LeBron didn't win in Cleveland because he wasn't ready for prime time (along with the lousy coaching). Remember he couldn't win in Miami last year w/Bosh and Wade. When they had Shaq w/ilgaskis and Antoine Jamerson along w/ Moe Williams they certainly had some good pieces compared to the rest of the league..
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Jamison wasn't signed till February, right as Shaq got hurt. I don't think they even played together except for the two playoff series. And c'mon, as much as I like Shaq, he was barely even a shadow of himself by 2009, averaging just 12/7 that year when he did play.
burk48237 said:
As far as running plays and team basketball, while driving the lane and dishing to three point shooters because you're double teamed is certainly a skill it alone is not a quality offense against a good defensive team. And that's what Miami's offense basically consists of. What they do very little of is pick and rolls, back door cuts, double screens, and off guard kick outs off screens, you know basketball plays:scowl:
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Meh, they do enough pick and rolls and back cuts. Honestly, I find the pick and roll as dull most of the time as a guy backing into to the basket while dribbling--the Stockton/Malone Jazz were great, but the offense was often like watching paint dry. I'd rather watch LeBron and Wade drive and shoot or create. And they play great defense, better than most recent champs.
 
#316
burk48237 said:
Yeah, If you forget, Bosh was a free agent too and their was talk of him coming to Cleveland to join Lebron. I still think he's the best athlete with basketball skills I've ever seen, but he doesn't have near the Basketball mind or sacrifice for the team mentality of the big three I grew up with (Bird, Magic, and Isaiah).

Think about this, Magic won the NBA final in his rookie year, and in the last game of the finals, Kareem went down so Magic played center. He ended up winning MVP, if it would have been Lebron, he would have taken the game off and spent the whole off season complaining about his teams inability to sign a good backup center.

And for all his abilities, he still doesn't have the leadership skills to will his team to a big win when the other guys aren't having good games.
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Yes, Bosh was a free agent the same year LBJ was. By that time, he already knew he was heading to Miami and he and his new team already had designs on him.

Lebron is nowhere near the category of MJ, Bird, Kareem, or Magic. They were mentally tougher and made everyone on their team consistently better. Raw talent, Lebron is their equal or better but his legacy never be on par with those greats.
 
#317
RS said:
Not from the get-go but as soon as 3-4 years into his career. After he and Wade played on the Olympic Team together. There are articles that spell out the whole theory and timeline of how they colluded and Pat Reilly's involvement.
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Well, he did sign an extension after his third season. And he stayed in Cleveland for four more years after that. Perhaps his thinking when he signed the extension was "I'll give it 4 more years here, and if we don't win a title, I'll try and hook up with Wade." That seems extremely reasonable to me.
 
#318
burk48237 said:
Yeah, If you forget, Bosh was a free agent too and their was talk of him coming to Cleveland to join Lebron. I still think he's the best athlete with basketball skills I've ever seen, but he doesn't have near the Basketball mind or sacrifice for the team mentality of the big three I grew up with (Bird, Magic, and Isaiah).
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That's just a crazy statement. The guy has sacrficed being the big dog and scoring leader in order to be the third option, rebound and clean up near the rim--and win a title. How is that anything other than sacrificing for the team?
burk48237 said:
Think about this, Magic won the NBA final in his rookie year, and in the last game of the finals, Kareem went down so Magic played center. He ended up winning MVP, if it would have been Lebron, he would have taken the game off and spent the whole off season complaining about his teams inability to sign a good backup center.
And for all his abilities, he still doesn't have the leadership skills to will his team to a big win when the other guys aren't having good games.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=320607002
 
#319
GregC said:
Well, he did sign an extension after his third season. And he stayed in Cleveland for four more years after that. Perhaps his thinking when he signed the extension was "I'll give it 4 more years here, and if we don't win a title, I'll try and hook up with Wade." That seems extremely reasonable to me.
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Right, it would been fair if he gave it his best for those four years. Instead, he was looking for the door before the end of that period. He flat out quit in a playoff series that was still competitive! That, and the Decision, are why typical Cleveland fan (like myself) still hold a grudge.
 
#320
RS said:
Right, it would been fair if he gave it his best for those four years. Instead, he was looking for the door before the end of that period. He flat out quit in a playoff series that was still competitive! That, and the Decision, are why typical Cleveland fan (like myself) still hold a grudge.
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Other than that wretched game 5, I've never bought into the "quit" talk. During the rest of the series, he averaged 29 pts, 10 boards and 7 assists, and his last game was a triple double. Seems to me he gave his best for four years minus one game.

The Decision show was stupid, but he did apologize for it. Considering how much Cleveland's ownership and fans have hammered him, it might be time to move on.
 

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