Double Bass NBD: Roth ( / Engelhardt?)

[robert_stuart]

An $800 pawn shop find: the bass, some kind of bow, and a new stand.

From my research, Engelhardt made these basses for Roth in the 70's. It definitely looks and plays like a German+Engelhardt offspring! On one hand are the nicer tuning machines and a real ebony fingerboard. But on the other is the Engelhardt / rockabilly aesthetic and obvious plywood.

I got it in tune pretty easily in the shop, played some slap on it, and it's still in tune now at home.

Can anyone identify the strings? They're not jazzy for sure.

The work I can see it needs: more room for bridge adjustment. It's about as low as it'll go, but the strings are still relatively high. And then have the neck reinforced or repaired. It looks like it's started to shift a little?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I’ve heard about that connection too, but that bass bears no resemblance to an Engel.

It needs more than a neck reset, it needs a button repair. Your best bet may be having it converted to a removable neck.

 

[jsf729]

I'd have a look at the endpin block also. Look like it took a shot there

 

[robert_stuart]

So did I majorly f*** up? I was hoping I could get it fixed up & stabilized for a few hundred dollars.

 

[misterbadger]

As the monkey said while peeing into a cash register, "this is gonna run into some money..."

I guess it depends on your definition of "majorly", but probably wasn't the best buying decision. In these parts, a couple of hundred is a string budget. Neck reset's obvious (how do you luthier-types feel about applying an overlay patch rather than going to the trouble of a button graft?), dealing with the tailblock issue (I'll make the wild guess that the unconventional attachment of the tailgut was somebody's workaround for a broken block that can't accept the sideways force exerted by the tailgut pulling on the endpin), setup, maybe new bridge, strings.

Take it to a competent luthier who specializes in basses for an evaluation and estimate, then decide how you want to go. All you'll get here is (from me, at least) semi-educated guesses based on a bunch of pictures. Good luck with it!

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

An overlay patch would be appropriate in this case, but in terms of functionality fully severing the button and converting the dowels to bolts would be much more practical.

The violin-style button the tailgut is attached to is factory original, not a repair.

 

[misterbadger]

Thanks, KFS - I've never seen that detail before.

 

[HateyMcAmp]

I had a similar broken button many years ago in nyc. It wasn’t that bad of a repair job (like less than 200 from
Bill Merchant) that didn’t require the neck coming off. it’s still holding for as well as I know (sold it to a friend.) I will say if you ever wanted a removable neck though this may be a great time to do the job. It would certainly add value to the bass.

 

[VictorW126]

Thanks, KFS - I've never seen that detail before.

It's the same on my German bass. This is great if you want to remove the end pin but don't want to remove the tail and strings.

 

[jsf729]

So did I majorly f*** up? I was hoping I could get it fixed up & stabilized for a few hundred dollars.

I wouldn't say "majorly". This bass isn't destined for the Philly Philharmonic. I believe that you intend to set it up for mainly slap. Even if you spend more a kittle more and can get out and gig with it, you'll make it up in time. Don't beat yourself up too bad.

 

[jsf729]

An overlay patch would be appropriate in this case, but in terms of functionality fully severing the button and converting the dowels to bolts would be much more practical.

The violin-style button the tailgut is attached to is factory original, not a repair.

Sage advice. Thanks for the explanation about the tailgut. Never seen that before.

 

[robert_stuart]

I wouldn't say "majorly". This bass isn't destined for the Philly Philharmonic. I believe that you intend to set it up for mainly slap. … Don't beat yourself up too bad.

Thanks! Yep, I was looking for an inexpensive bass for the bedroom, for playing slap, and Latin. No heavy road travel. With some light synthetic guts I think it’ll do pretty well.

 

[ctrlzjones]

I had a similar broken button many years ago in nyc. It wasn’t that bad of a repair job (like less than 200 from
Bill Merchant) that didn’t require the neck coming off. it’s still holding for as well as I know (sold it to a friend.) I will say if you ever wanted a removable neck though this may be a great time to do the job. It would certainly add value to the bass.

Would you care about detailing how the repair on your button was done? I spotted a beginning crack on mine and am looking into procedures that don’t require lifting the back…

 

[Matt Ides]

Put some guts on that thing since the treble side of the top is already sinking. Will be good for what your purposes are but I would just get it playable and leave it at that.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Re: Plywood button repair

Ply basses generally have five layers of veneer. Let’s call them ABCDE going from outer to inner. To effect the repair, after you get everything trued up, use a pull saw to remove layer B to a level below the damaged area. Brush glue onto replacement veneer, slide into place and clamp, then trim after the glue sets. Repeat for layer D. Try not to screw up…

 

[ctrlzjones]

Re: Plywood button repair

Ply basses generally have five layers of veneer. Let’s call them ABCDE going from outer to inner. To effect the repair, after you get everything trued up, use a pull saw to remove layer B to a level below the damaged area. Brush glue onto replacement veneer, slide into place and clamp, then trim after the glue sets. Repeat for layer D. Try not to screw up…

My grandma had a cake recipe like that, layer after layer after layer.

But what if the back is carved? It seems impossible to get to a clean leveled surface for using HH. Epoxy would fill the spaces, but that’s ugly, not?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

F*** epoxy. On a carved back, you’d feather in new wood. Much less fiddly.

 

[ctrlzjones]

F*** epoxy. On a carved back, you’d feather in new wood. Much less fiddly.

Thank you. And apologies for highjacking the thread.

 

[robert_stuart]

And here it is, getting fixed up: