NBD: Sire Z7-5

[Baker69]

Well the new Z7-5 arrived today as scheduled however everything hasn’t turned out as I’d hoped. Yes you guessed it, it came fitted with the ‘old’ style neck pickup and not the new large pole pickup which Anderton’s had assured would be fitted as they had themselves spoken with Sire direct prior to this batch of deliveries to them. I spoke earlier with Anderton’s who could only apologise and the guy who I spoke with didn’t know how I had been given the information as he understood the new pickups wouldn’t be appearing on Z7’s until possibly August/September.

The option I have with them is to either keep the one I received today with the ‘Jazz’ pickup or return it to them and wait a further 4 or 5 months for the next batch of Z7’s, or another option is to just return it for a refund?

The bass itself is very nice, all the controls work ok and the stacked pots don’t bind together as some guys have experienced. Very nice neck, lovely feel to it, the fretboard colour is sort of coffee coloured but the headstock is a lot darker. I haven’t spent a great deal of time with it yet, (no more than 10 minutes) but it seems to be fairly well set up, the action probably a fraction too high for me but that’s not an issue and there’s no noticeable fret buzz. Tuners feel nice, they feel similar to those on my P7 really. I’m not too worried about the control knobs at the moment, they don’t look too bad and are a lot better than those that came on my P7, I like the fact that with the white line that’s painted on them it’s easy to see where your settings are at a glance as they face up towards you at their centre detente’s, I would miss that feature if I swapped them for chrome knobs.

It is immediately evident that the neck pickup is too quiet compared with the bridge pickup, but it doesn’t take much panning to get a better balance but in doing so you do lose some volume. I haven’t quite worked out yet how it would work in a live situation if you wanted to use each of the pickups on their own, I’m assuming I would have to set the volume on the neck pickup to a usable level then if switching to the MM pickup just dial back on the volume control?

I think I will probably keep it, I’ve waited since December for this one which has seemed a very long time, not sure whether I fancy waiting another few months for another one. The option is always there to replace the pickup at a later date anyway. Being a lefty model these are hard enough to get in the first place!

I like the sound of the bass so far, I’ve only tried it for 10 minutes on my IEM headphones though. I’m a bit surprised though as it doesn’t sound thin and brittle like I’ve heard on some of the YouTube video reviews, it sounds quite warm actually.

Anyway, I’ll post again once I’ve had to chance to evaluate it further, I would welcome suggestions as to whether I should keep it and persevere with it or return it in the hope of getting one with the upgraded pickup some months down the line?

 

[mcnach]

Well the new Z7-5 arrived today as scheduled however everything hasn’t turned out as I’d hoped. Yes you guessed it, it came fitted with the ‘old’ style neck pickup and not the new large pole pickup which Anderton’s had assured would be fitted as they had themselves spoken with Sire direct prior to this batch of deliveries to them. I spoke earlier with Anderton’s who could only apologise and the guy who I spoke with didn’t know how I had been given the information as he understood the new pickups wouldn’t be appearing on Z7’s until possibly August/September.

The option I have with them is to either keep the one I received today with the ‘Jazz’ pickup or return it to them and wait a further 4 or 5 months for the next batch of Z7’s, or another option is to just return it for a refund?

The bass itself is very nice, all the controls work ok and the stacked pots don’t bind together as some guys have experienced. Very nice neck, lovely feel to it, the fretboard colour is sort of coffee coloured but the headstock is a lot darker. I haven’t spent a great deal of time with it yet, (no more than 10 minutes) but it seems to be fairly well set up, the action probably a fraction too high for me but that’s not an issue and there’s no noticeable fret buzz. Tuners feel nice, they feel similar to those on my P7 really. I’m not too worried about the control knobs at the moment, they don’t look too bad and are a lot better than those that came on my P7, I like the fact that with the white line that’s painted on them it’s easy to see where your settings are at a glance as they face up towards you at their centre detente’s, I would miss that feature if I swapped them for chrome knobs.

It is immediately evident that the neck pickup is too quiet compared with the bridge pickup, but it doesn’t take much panning to get a better balance but in doing so you do lose some volume. I haven’t quite worked out yet how it would work in a live situation if you wanted to use each of the pickups on their own, I’m assuming I would have to set the volume on the neck pickup to a usable level then if switching to the MM pickup just dial back on the volume control?

I think I will probably keep it, I’ve waited since December for this one which has seemed a very long time, not sure whether I fancy waiting another few months for another one. The option is always there to replace the pickup at a later date anyway. Being a lefty model these are hard enough to get in the first place!

I like the sound of the bass so far, I’ve only tried it for 10 minutes on my IEM headphones though. I’m a bit surprised though as it doesn’t sound thin and brittle like I’ve heard on some of the YouTube video reviews, it sounds quite warm actually.

Anyway, I’ll post again once I’ve had to chance to evaluate it further, I would welcome suggestions as to whether I should keep it and persevere with it or return it in the hope of getting one with the upgraded pickup some months down the line?

First of all... Congrats on your new bass, but...

Where are the pictures????

From your comments I'd keep it, as it seems your impression is largely positive, and there's no guarantee you'll like the new pickup better.

At first the volume discrepancy bothered me a bit, but I got used to it. I actually liked the tone of the neck pickup on its own when I tried it live. I didn't change pickups, just played a whole set on it. If I had to change pickups often I'd probably just use some pedal to bring the volume to the same level, but for occasional changes I wouldn't bother. You can improve the volume issue by bringing the bridge pickup down a bit and the neck up a bit, but that affects the tone as well and I didn't like it as much so I set it back to where it was originally. It's a good sound, and with a little foam mute that thing sounds riiiiighteous , just quieter than the other pickup.
I guess how bothersome that is will depend on how much you want to switch pickups back and forth during a set, but a little EQ or booster pedal would sort that out. Some people change basses during a set and they deal with it the same way. However if you don't want any additional pedals then you'll have to ride that volume knob carefully... In short, how much of an issue it is will depend on your specific circumstances. For me it's something I can live with easily.

I liked the knobs initially but every time I took it out of the gig bag the mids knobs were stuck together. It was easy to unbind them with my fingers, but that shows how weakly attached they are. The shaft is thin and the knob has a plastic ring that the grub screw presses on, and that presses onto the shaft. It's just not very firm and I can turn the knob past its stop, so the white line becomes meaningless unless I notice and reset it. After a few gigs I got bored of that dance and got a set of replacement knobs... Not as nice looking, in my opinion, but no more surprises.

And indeed, thin and brittle it ain't.

 

[eli]

So here's my plan for the stacked knobs dragging each other around:

Gonna do some micrometer work and figure out exactly how long a dowel rod will sit inside the upper knob's bore and bump into the shaft to keep it above and out of contact with the bottom knob.

Report soon...

 

[Baker69]

First of all... Congrats on your new bass, but...

Where are the pictures????

From your comments I'd keep it, as it seems your impression is largely positive, and there's no guarantee you'll like the new pickup better.

At first the volume discrepancy bothered me a bit, but I got used to it. I actually liked the tone of the neck pickup on its own when I tried it live. I didn't change pickups, just played a whole set on it. If I had to change pickups often I'd probably just use some pedal to bring the volume to the same level, but for occasional changes I wouldn't bother. You can improve the volume issue by bringing the bridge pickup down a bit and the neck up a bit, but that affects the tone as well and I didn't like it as much so I set it back to where it was originally. It's a good sound, and with a little foam mute that thing sounds riiiiighteous , just quieter than the other pickup.
I guess how bothersome that is will depend on how much you want to switch pickups back and forth during a set, but a little EQ or booster pedal would sort that out. Some people change basses during a set and they deal with it the same way. However if you don't want any additional pedals then you'll have to ride that volume knob carefully... In short, how much of an issue it is will depend on your specific circumstances. For me it's something I can live with easily.

I liked the knobs initially but every time I took it out of the gig bag the mids knobs were stuck together. It was easy to unbind them with my fingers, but that shows how weakly attached they are. The shaft is thin and the knob has a plastic ring that the grub screw presses on, and that presses onto the shaft. It's just not very firm and I can turn the knob past its stop, so the white line becomes meaningless unless I notice and reset it. After a few gigs I got bored of that dance and got a set of replacement knobs... Not as nice looking, in my opinion, but no more surprises.

And indeed, thin and brittle it ain't.

Thanks for your reply mcnach.

No photos yet, I’ve literally spent just 10 minutes with it as it didn’t arrive until 4:30pm this afternoon. Hopefully tomorrow.

Yes, I think I probably will be keeping it. I need to experiment some more with the settings, I seem to like centring the pickup blend control then favouring a setting slightly either side of the detente. I tried the passive mode very briefly (mainly to see if it worked) but I really see myself using this bass in active mode only. In fact all of my basses are active now.

For now I think I will leave the pickup heights as they are, but I may experiment with the heights as you did at a later date. I use a Zoom B6 for a lot of my live playing so I thought I could make a duplicate copy of my favourite preset and alter the master volume on one of them for when I use the neck pickup, I think it should be possible to get a close volume level match with the MM pickup that way? Another method is to use an A/B switch to change between the 2 inputs on the B6 and adjust the channel volumes accordingly between input channels 1 and 2.

Looking forward to spending some time with the Z7 and sorting everything out to my liking before trying it out at the gig on Saturday.

 

[Baker69]

So here's my plan for the stacked knobs dragging each other around:

Gonna do some micrometer work and figure out exactly how long a dowel rod will sit inside the upper knob's bore and bump into the shaft to keep it above and out of contact with the bottom knob.

Report soon...

I haven’t come across this issue (yet)!

I think I understand what you’re trying to do. I don’t know how much travel is at the head of the upper knob, but with the stacked knobs on my John East preamp on one of my basses I loosened the bottom knob until it was on the pickguard then pushed the top knob down as far as it would go then used the Allen wrench to secure it, then I just raised the bottom knob up to the correct position and then secured it. I assume you must have tried this with the Z7 though and it doesn’t work that way?

 

[SJan3]

Came in today. Nice setup, neck relief is about perfect, strings could be a little lower but not bad. The neck profile and string spacing is very close to a G&L JB5 I had for a while. If you like a slimmer neck on your 5 string, this one has it. Tone wise it is very "StingRay-ish". Lots of knobs and the one I like the best is a treble roll off under the master volume that works in both active and passive modes. It is nice to be in active and be able to just give it a little trim when it needs it. I know that this is just the honey moon and I'll know more after I gig with it New Years. For now I'm delighted.

Love the color!

 

[eli]

I haven’t come across this issue (yet)!

I think I understand what you’re trying to do. I don’t know how much travel is at the head of the upper knob, but with the stacked knobs on my John East preamp on one of my basses I loosened the bottom knob until it was on the pickguard then pushed the top knob down as far as it would go then used the Allen wrench to secure it, then I just raised the bottom knob up to the correct position and then secured it. I assume you must have tried this with the Z7 though and it doesn’t work that way?

Z7 top knobs don't have set screws, they just push on. They're not super tight so when they are in a gig bag, they can get pushed down against the bottom knob.

Clearly John East engineered it better.

 

[Baker69]

Z7 top knobs don't have set screws, they just push on. They're not super tight so when they are in a gig bag, they can get pushed down against the bottom knob.

Clearly John East engineered it better.

Ideally then you need some way of fitting the top knob so that it can’t go down any further, is that what you’re trying to achieve?

 

[Baker69]

Hi guys, here’s a few pics of the new Sire Z7-5! Just been trying her out this morning, going to do a set up in a while, I think the truss rod needs a small tweak and reduce string height slightly but I could gig with it as it is no problem. The neck and the feel of is superb, fret dressing is excellent and no dead spots on the neck anywhere. Still got to try it through my amp later.

 

[Baker69]

I checked the truss rod and it was about 20 thou at the 8th fret! Adjusted it to 12 thou and it’s a lot better. I decided to leave the string heights as they are for the moment, I could probably drop them a bit lower than they are but for me it feels comfortable and without any fret rattle/buzzing.

I gave it a good check over and it really has a very good build quality, excellent neck pocket joint, frets very nicely dressed, the neck is superb on these basses! Nice quality bridge which I understand they also use on the Z3’s. Very nice stainless steel frets, I also love the coloured abalone fret markers. Another plus is the white dot fret markers on the side of the neck, they show up really well against the dark finish neck and fretboard.

I haven’t checked the weight yet, at a guess it feels about 9.5 lbs and it’s definitely a bit lighter than my Sire P7-5 string. Sits very nicely balanced on my Comfort Strapp.

The jury’s still out on the neck pickup, it does sound nice though and on playing the bass for about half an hour earlier using different pickup combinations it is fairly easy to quickly adjust (reduce) the bridge pickup to match the neck pickup volume. Long term though I possibly may consider upgrading to a more powerful pickup. Perhaps Sire should offer these at a reduced amount to existing Mk 1 owners as compensation??? The neck pickup was a big selling point for me concerning tonal variation otherwise I may have gone for the Z3, but then there is that gorgeous roasted maple neck! Love the natural finish as well which isn’t available on the Z3.

 

[eli]

Ideally then you need some way of fitting the top knob so that it can’t go down any further, is that what you’re trying to achieve?

Exactly. Actually did the micrometer work, and determined that an 8mm dia x 1.5mm thk disc should do the job, inside the top knob bore. Found some for dirt cheap on amazon and they're due to arrive Thursday, so stay tuned for results!

 

[Baker69]

Just looking at my photos that I posted - it’s a shame they didn’t use the slab the other way round, the grain pattern is a lot more interesting on the back?

 

[mcnach]

I checked the truss rod and it was about 20 thou at the 8th fret! Adjusted it to 12 thou and it’s a lot better. I decided to leave the string heights as they are for the moment, I could probably drop them a bit lower than they are but for me it feels comfortable and without any fret rattle/buzzing.

I gave it a good check over and it really has a very good build quality, excellent neck pocket joint, frets very nicely dressed, the neck is superb on these basses! Nice quality bridge which I understand they also use on the Z3’s. Very nice stainless steel frets, I also love the coloured abalone fret markers. Another plus is the white dot fret markers on the side of the neck, they show up really well against the dark finish neck and fretboard.

I haven’t checked the weight yet, at a guess it feels about 9.5 lbs and it’s definitely a bit lighter than my Sire P7-5 string. Sits very nicely balanced on my Comfort Strapp.

The jury’s still out on the neck pickup, it does sound nice though and on playing the bass for about half an hour earlier using different pickup combinations it is fairly easy to quickly adjust (reduce) the bridge pickup to match the neck pickup volume. Long term though I possibly may consider upgrading to a more powerful pickup. Perhaps Sire should offer these at a reduced amount to existing Mk 1 owners as compensation??? The neck pickup was a big selling point for me concerning tonal variation otherwise I may have gone for the Z3, but then there is that gorgeous roasted maple neck! Love the natural finish as well which isn’t available on the Z3.

I just realised... my Ray35 has a resistor making the series and parallel options similar in volume. I wonder if we could do something like that to bring the output of the MM down slightly without altering its sound excessively... hmmm. I need to check that out.

 

[mcnach]

Just looking at my photos that I posted - it’s a shame they didn’t use the slab the other way round, the grain pattern is a lot more interesting on the back?

Mine is the same. The grain match between the wood pieces looks far better on the back than on the front. Nothing terrible but, yeah, it would have been nice if if were the other way around.

 

[Baker69]

I just realised... my Ray35 has a resistor making the series and parallel options similar in volume. I wonder if we could do something like that to bring the output of the MM down slightly without altering its sound excessively... hmmm. I need to check that out.

Like on the Rickenbacker bridge pickup then?

 

[mcnach]

Like on the Rickenbacker bridge pickup then?

I have no idea about Rics

 

[Baker69]

I have no idea about Rics

Yes, part of the Ric sound was due to the very powerful bridge pickup which was tamed by an inline resistor.

 

[mcnach]

Yes, part of the Ric sound was due to the very powerful bridge pickup which was tamed by an inline resistor.

Right! I had no idea. But yes, that's the idea, however I do not know how much it'll change the sound of the pickup. I imagine the Ric pickup was designed with that in mind. Still... resistors are really cheap, so it might be worth trying. There's a thread somewhere about how pickups work and the effects of simple circuit mods using resistors and capacitors to alter their sound... I'll have to find it and try to get some enlightment there.

 

[Baker69]

Right! I had no idea. But yes, that's the idea, however I do not know how much it'll change the sound of the pickup. I imagine the Ric pickup was designed with that in mind. Still... resistors are really cheap, so it might be worth trying. There's a thread somewhere about how pickups work and the effects of simple circuit mods using resistors and capacitors to alter their sound... I'll have to find it and try to get some enlightment there.

Unfortunately and as with the Ric resistor it took all the meat/muscle out of the pickup’s sound. Later models have a push/pull switch to engage/disengage the resistor.

I wouldn’t want to install an inline resistor if it impacts that much on the tone as it does on a Ric.

 

[Baker69]

Mine is the same. The grain match between the wood pieces looks far better on the back than on the front. Nothing terrible but, yeah, it would have been nice if if were the other way around.

I suspect on mine it was intended that way but as it’s a lefty model they just flipped the blank over and the nice grain which should have been on the front face is now on the back!