NCD - Mesa 115 UL (winner!) vs Markbass GOG

[Al Kraft]

So it may be time for my CN212 to be retired. Good thing I have the Subway 1x15

Since you and I also share a love for the original Walkabout, I know you will appreciate that if I have to retire my CN212 it will be doubly difficult. I have yet to find another cab that that makes my WA sound like what I think Mesa was always hoping for back in the day when they kept trying to get higher power MPulse heads to get the WA vibe.

That said, the WA or WD800 with the SW cabs is darn close!

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

No sir - 1978 Suer Twin. Not sure what Fender was doing thinking this was a guitar amp. A lot of guys used 78 Super Twins for bass - Highly recommended!

180 watts Ultralinear Transformer (six 6L6) with a Twin Preamp into a 5 band EQ that allows you to boost or cut freq such as sub 100hz or over 6000hz.

It has a garbage OD and comes as a 212 guitar combo, and unfortunately it is common that their caps and resistors are in backwards (common issue at the time.) But a good tech can figure it out.

Bill Krinard modded this one with extra Dumble modifications specifically to be a bass amp, and put it in this headshell. It’s real clear and hifi, and has lows like my SVT. I mainly use it as my backup, but it’s light and easy to bring to gigs:

View attachment 7501122

And the Super Twin Reverb is also a thing!

 

[plumberstrummer]

**Update**

I went ahead and bought the TT 800 today to go with the 115 cab. This head is even lighter than the mini max! I am keeping the mini max for gigs where I don’t care as much about ideal tone, or gigs I just want a cheaper rig for some reason. However, my first line of offense for a grab and go gig will be this Mesa head and cab.

Probably will use this tt800 for the “low low end” in my dual amp rig… remains to be seen…

Excellent work @agedhorse - you guys are killing it! I really love this line, and I’m stoked to be able to get such a big and complete sound out of such a little package. It’s a testament to your expertise. Bravo Andy! You’re the man!

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

**Update**

I went ahead and bought the TT 800 today to go with the 115 cab. This head is even lighter than the mini max! I am keeping the mini max for gigs where I don’t care as much about overall tone, or I’m going to a weird neighborhood. However, my first line of offense for a grab and go gig will be this Mesa head and cab. Probably will use this for the low end in my dual amp set up with my custom head, but remains to be seen…

Excellent work @agedhorse - you guys are killing it! I really love this line, and I’m stoked to be able to get such a big and complete sound out of such a light package. It’s truly a testament to your expertise. Bravo Andy! You’re the man!

Congratulations on the SW115 and TT800!
It took me a few years to get a TT800 but I was instantly hooked : )

 

[plumberstrummer]

Congratulations on the SW115 and TT800!
It took me a few years to get a TT800 but I was instantly hooked : )

Totally, I’m stoked! The checks a lot of boxes for me control wise, and overall usability. Light and easy to grab and go too! Which is really all I was looking for. I also wanted something for practice use that didn’t have a loud fan like the minimax.

I’m using it on a couple gigs tomorrow, we’ll see how it goes! I’m sure it’ll kill, sounded great at the shop (just eager see how it sits with a B3) -

Definitely looking forward to tweaking all the knobs and getting to know the 2 channels. This seems super versatile! I had no problem dialing in a few great tones for gospel, mid scooped slap as well as driven rock stuff. Killer amp at 1st pass, just wanna get to know controls live.

 

[Al Kraft]

Totally, I’m stoked! The checks a lot of boxes for me control wise, and overall usability. Light and easy to grab and go too! Which is really all I was looking for. I also wanted something for practice use that didn’t have a loud fan like the minimax.

I’m using it on a couple gigs tomorrow, we’ll see how it goes! I’m sure it’ll kill, sounded great at the shop (just eager see how it sits with a B3) -

Definitely looking forward to tweaking all the knobs and getting to know the 2 channels. This seems super versatile! I had no problem dialing in a few great tones for gospel, mid scooped slap as well as driven rock stuff. Killer amp at 1st pass, just wanna get to know controls live.

I've found the TT as easy to dial in live at gig volume as it is when using it for practice or rehearsal. The head stays nicely balanced as you bring up the volume and the linear taper controls allow subtle adjustments to account for venue acoustics without changing the voice you've set. I find the variable HPF to be especially helpful in this respect.

Enjoy the gigs!

 

[plumberstrummer]

Ok, mixed review here:

1) Love the head, sounded excellent in the first gig with an acoustic 115 cab I’d brought there. Actually vibrated crazy in the church, such I haven’t heard… A+ all around! In the second gig I was able to use the boogie channel more, which seemed to fit the songs better. More of an old school R&B kind of gig. Really hit for slap on the subway channel, too…

2) Bad news on the 3rd gig - I might’ve burned the 115 speaker… I had used the tt800 with a combination of the 115 and a 4ohm Ampeg 410 which came out to 2ohm and seemed to be sounding huge and really deep. Loved it, but after a couple of songs I got nervous because I heard some overdriven sounds and thought it was the 410 getting too much power. I reduced down to just the 115 and after a couple very driven slap songs I heard a lot of distortion, it seemed quieter, and smelled a burning smell. I smelled this same smell at another gig as well, couldn’t tell you when, but now it was certain… I just tried to work with it. It seemed okay-ish once I turned down for preacher talking stuff and alter call. Got through the gig.

After everyone left I tried to get my ear around what was distorting, and it was definitely the 115 cab. My other Ampeg was a lot louder and clear with the tt800 (though I could probably benefit from new tubes) but both the minimax and the mesa are distorting through the 115… I’m afraid I broke the cab by having the low end all extended and boosted, and pushing the speaker for too long and too hard. I am bummed, but at least I have other cabs.

Thinking I should just trade up for a 215 or a 212? I was pretty sure I was within the 400 watt realm at 8 ohms, I wasn’t more than half up on the master and at the low gain setting. I did have the MM5 dimed out on the bass and master, and the deep switch engaged on the amp. I left the hpf all the way down too, didn’t think it would hurt anything but I guess I’m a dummy.

Still, loved the tone I was getting until it lost volume and got all distorted. It’s just a really loud environment, and it gets really rocking and driven regularly. Pentecostal, modern gospel and R&B… lots of low B string stuff and slap.

Should I get a 212 or a 215? Will that be safer and still get me in the ballpark? It is under warranty, so I’ll be able to get a speaker swap if that’s the best thing…

Help? Any direction here?

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

Ok, mixed review here:

1) Love the head, sounded excellent in the first gig with an acoustic 115 cab I’d brought there. Actually vibrated crazy in the church, such I haven’t heard… A+ all around! In the second gig I was able to use the boogie channel more, which seemed to fit the songs better. More of an old school R&B kind of gig. Really hit for slap on the subway channel, too…

2) Bad news on the 3rd gig - I might’ve burned the 115 speaker… I had used the tt800 with a combination of the 115 and a 4ohm Ampeg 410 which came out to 2ohm and seemed to be sounding huge and really deep. Loved it, but after a couple of songs I got nervous because I heard some overdriven sounds and thought it was the 410 getting too much power. I reduced down to just the 115 and after a couple very driven slap songs I heard a lot of distortion, it seemed quieter, and smelled a burning smell. I smelled this same smell at another gig as well, couldn’t tell you when, but now it was certain… I just tried to work with it. It seemed okay-ish once I turned down for preacher talking stuff and alter call. Got through the gig.

After everyone left I tried to get my ear around what was distorting, and it was definitely the 115 cab. My other Ampeg was a lot louder and clear with the tt800 (though I could probably benefit from new tubes) but both the minimax and the mesa are distorting through the 115… I’m afraid I broke the cab by having the low end all extended and boosted, and pushing the speaker for too long and too hard. I am bummed, but at least I have other cabs.

Thinking I should just trade up for a 215 or a 212? I was pretty sure I was within the 400 watt realm at 8 ohms, I wasn’t more than half up on the master and at the low gain setting. I did have the MM5 dimed out on the bass and master, and the deep switch engaged on the amp. I left the hpf all the way down too, didn’t think it would hurt anything but I guess I’m a dummy.

Still, loved the tone I was getting until it lost volume and got all distorted. It’s just a really loud environment, and it gets really rocking and driven regularly. Pentecostal, modern gospel and R&B… lots of low B string stuff and slap.

Should I get a 212 or a 215? Will that be safer and still get me in the ballpark? It is under warranty, so I’ll be able to get a speaker swap if that’s the best thing…

Help? Any direction here?

I would say a Subway 215, you are in a powerful situation! The Leslie has it’s own 115 for instance.

: )

 

[agedhorse]

This was an Acoustic 115 cabinet?

 

[plumberstrummer]

I would say a Subway 215, you are in a powerful situation! The Leslie has it’s own 115 for instance.

: )

Seriously… really it’s just very dynamic. At its loudest: Usually a B3 with at least 1 if not 2 Lesley‘s often pushed well into distortion, drummer, full choir at some churches, but either way you’ve got so much singing with everybody present. Never a PA line out or anything either so I’m solely responsible for the house.Then it gets so quiet at times or we’re just barely felt behind the pastor. I’m sitting in the low low end with a lot of mid scoop to leave room for the B3. When it gets really driven on shout or some modern gospel thing, I’ll pull up the highs in the mids on the music man. For the most part I am basically a drum.

Edit:** for what it’s worth, I’m actually tuned down a half step to Bb as well. (makes it easier to play in all the flat keys.)

 

[plumberstrummer]

This was an Acoustic 115 cabinet?

Hey man! No, I think I blew the Mesa. I only mentioned the acoustic because it’s just what I was using at that church service this morning. That cab sucks, but it was convenient and there to use.

I really think something is wrong with the Mesa 115 now after the second and third service today where I really was pushing it. Unless you think there’s another reason why I would smell burning, and the cab would become way more distorted and far out on the low end, and lose overall volume… ?

Thinking I should just get a 215 or 212

 

[agedhorse]

I see virtually no Subway cabinets damaged from too much power, when driven by a Subway amp. While it's "possible", it's awfully hard to do.

Were you running the amp in 2 ohm mode when driving the two cabinets?

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

Hey man! No, I think I blew the Mesa. I only mentioned the acoustic because it’s just what I was using at that church service this morning. That cab sucks, but it was convenient and there to use.

I really think something is wrong with the Mesa 115 now after the second and third service today where I really was pushing it. Unless you think there’s another reason why I would smell burning, and the cab would become way more distorted and far out on the low end, and lose overall volume… ?

Thinking I should just get a 215 or 212

The SW215 will do the lows on a grand scale when you are leaving room in the mids for the Hammond. Aside from that though, I wonder if you have a defective SW115, the TT800 should not just blow a SW115 right out of the box, or else TalkBass would be full of similar reports, and playing in the environment that you are, I have no doubt as to you knowing what you are doing : )

 

[John D Harris]

Hey man! No, I think I blew the Mesa. I only mentioned the acoustic because it’s just what I was using at that church service this morning. That cab sucks, but it was convenient and there to use.

I really think something is wrong with the Mesa 115 now after the second and third service today where I really was pushing it. Unless you think there’s another reason why I would smell burning, and the cab would become way more distorted and far out on the low end, and lose overall volume… ?

Thinking I should just get a 215 or 212

Dude, you should Direct Message @agedhorse to get everything squared away in the best way possible!

 

[plumberstrummer]

I see virtually no Subway cabinets damaged from too much power, when driven by a Subway amp. While it's "possible", it's awfully hard to do.

Were you running the amp in 2 ohm mode when driving the two cabinets?

Yessir, I was running it at 2 ohms into the 2 cabs… in the manual. It said the 115 would get 33% of the power, so I thought it was fine? And yes, it is also possible it may have already been damaged by another amp prior to me picking it up, it was GC after all. That said, I got it new, and got the warranty in case I blew a speaker… as long as I shouldn’t “technically” blow a speaker with the tt800 (even if I’m fully driving the low end maxxed out with a dimed MM Stingray 5 string?) then i will just get this serviced. I’d hate to be out of this Cab for that long though. Back in the day we used to be able to ride up to Petaluma and go to the Factory, but I doubt that things are the same now…

I might try and just swap it out at GC, maybe with a 215 or 212 like I was thinking. I’d still like to know if I broke the speaker, or it’s something else? I believe you that they hardly break…

 

[plumberstrummer]

Yeah, the cab is definitely blown… I tried to use it at a fourth gig tonight and the low end is completely nonexistent at gig volume, then if I turn it up past a certain point it just distorts like crazy.

I agree with all of you, though that I shouldn’t have blown the speaker just using either one of these amplifiers. Maybe it was already damaged at GC, or some other reason.

In any case, the question is do I just fix the 115, or do I trade up for a 215?

I will say that last week or the week before I used it at had zero problems filling the whole space and feeling very comfortable. Same place I was at tonight, but with the mini max instead of the TT 800.

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

I will say that last week or the week before I used it at had zero problems filling the whole space and feeling very comfortable. Same place I was at tonight, but with the mini max instead of the TT 800.

Was last week also with the TT800?

 

[plumberstrummer]

Was last week also with the TT800?

No, that was the minimax. Which claims 350w at 8ohm, so shouldn’t have burnt the speaker either, but I remember that smell briefly last week as well… might just be a lucky lemon?

I was dreaming about all this last night. I trust @agedhorse about this not being common even if I did break it somehow. As a result, I’ll either swap this out for a new one or get it repaired. Either way, leaving toward giving it one more shot before upgrading to a 215 or 212… tbd.

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

No, that was the minimax. Which claims 350w at 8ohm, so shouldn’t have burnt the speaker either, but I remember that smell briefly last week as well… might just be a lucky lemon?

I was dreaming about all this last night. I trust @agedhorse about this not being common even if I did break it somehow. As a result, I’ll either swap this out for a new one or get it repaired. Either way, leaving toward giving it one more shot before upgrading to a 215 or 212 tbd.

I went with multiple Subway Single cabs vs the 215 or 212 since I am getting older now at age 64, luckily I was with a group at the time I made that decision where the rehearsal space was up on a third floor level mezzanine open and overlooking a factory production floor, there were so many stairs! So that persuaded me.

If you are younger though, do not have three flights of stairs, and the weight is no issue, then the SW215 seems like the best thing going between the price, lows, power handling, wheels, and from what others have posted it’s height makes the wheels practical to use.

 

[plumberstrummer]

I went with multiple Subway Single cabs vs the 215 or 212 since I am getting older now at age 64, luckily I was with a group at the time I made that decision where the rehearsal space was up on a third floor level mezzanine open and overlooking a factory production floor, there were so many stairs! So that persuaded me.

If you are younger though, do not have three flights of stairs, and the weight is no issue, then the SW215 seems like the best thing going between the price, lows, power handling, wheels, and from what others have posted it’s height makes the wheels practical to use.

yeah, I guess I could just get another single 115 or 112, that way I can cater to the gig. Given that my purpose for this was a grab and go rig that didn’t get me winded loading and unloading, I still like the idea of the 115 (maybe just keep the HPF up a bit when I am using only one cab?)

I like the idea of the wheels on the 215, but I don’t know how I’ll feel loading in in and out of the truck. I could still do that, I just feel weird showing up to a new spot with a big old cab. Footprint matters sometimes too.