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Double Bass Near the bridge vs. son premier
- Thread starter garrett2
- Start date
They are two distinct approaches. Arco is always a balance between speed, placement, and weight. I love the sound of getting close to the bridge with a slow bow. As much as I can, I keep the placement of my bow in one spot and change my bow speed depending on what part of the bass I am playing. Low notes = slower bow, higher notes = faster bow. Practicing this is what the Gary Karr vomit exercise is all about. Sometimes I change my approach; sometimes placing the bow in the sweet spot (son premier), node of the string two octaves above the pitch you are playing is the right thing to do. I definitely teach kids to do this until they develop the coordination to deal with weight and bow speed.
I have found myself more lately in the position of being in an "underpowered" bass section compared to the rest of the orchestra. It's a temptation to overplay and I find if I play closer to the bridge than I normally would I can resist that. It takes some adjustment and the sound isn't what may be stylistically appropriate at all times, but it can give a boost to the bass sound in these situations. It's not a substitute for more bodies but we do what we can.
I think that generally you need to be able to bow in any position between end of fingerboard and the bridge. All the ideal placement theories, in my experience, omit the need to play notes of different duration in the same bowing place. For example, if you are to play a 3-beat long note and a quaver repeatedly, you want the long note to be played with a whole bow to achieve full sound. Then you must play the quaver also with a whole bow, so you could repeat the pattern. Thus you need to bow in one position, you can't choose the speed, and you must lessen the weight of bowing hand to play in the same dynamic range. This is safer done closer to the fingerboard, as at the bridge the bow is harder to control.
Say you practise your bow position on long tones, playing scale, whole bow. After you're done with it, try the same scale as fast as you can, still whole bow, light touch. Find the bowing position where it works best, learn it there well, and only then expand your bowing position range.
It can be practiced on dedicated etudes like in Ševčík, or you can practise on real classical pieces and excerpts. Wide bowing gives you wide, warm sound.
Say you practise your bow position on long tones, playing scale, whole bow. After you're done with it, try the same scale as fast as you can, still whole bow, light touch. Find the bowing position where it works best, learn it there well, and only then expand your bowing position range.
It can be practiced on dedicated etudes like in Ševčík, or you can practise on real classical pieces and excerpts. Wide bowing gives you wide, warm sound.
- Jan 24, 2002
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They’re different things.
François’ concept of “primary sound” is about finding the point where the bass is the most open and resonant. In his opinion, that places the bow quite precisely on the 7th partial of whatever note you’re currently playing. Any deviation from that should be a conscious choice.
For many players, that sound is too close to sul tasto and on the fluffy side. It’s also easy to over press and crush the sound in that position, but when done correctly it does project very well and sounds very rich.
François’ concept of “primary sound” is about finding the point where the bass is the most open and resonant. In his opinion, that places the bow quite precisely on the 7th partial of whatever note you’re currently playing. Any deviation from that should be a conscious choice.
For many players, that sound is too close to sul tasto and on the fluffy side. It’s also easy to over press and crush the sound in that position, but when done correctly it does project very well and sounds very rich.
Two different approaches with different sonic results.
I would also add playing slightly sul tasto and using a lot of bow speed as another possible tonal color: sometimes playing with very little bow close to the bridge (or at least starting a note close to the bridge) can feel like I’m fighting the string and it was a revelation the first time I had a teacher tell me to play closer to the fingerboard and use a lot of bow for a decently loud passage (I think it was the quarters in the Beethoven 5 trio).
Likewise! I still remember when my previous teacher broke out a db reader to show how, in fact, playing closer to the fingerboard could yield just as loud or louder sounds than close to the bridge (not to mention more varied tone possibilities).
IMHO, for the level I'm at, I think this is a bit over the top.
If you want to project, play close to the bridge, the closer, the harsher the sound, but there is an optimum.
As regards bowing open strings sul tasto, I find this awkward and notice no discernible difference when bowing in a more "neutral" position between finger board and bridge. I don't ever recall Mr Karr speaking of Son Premier and his sound was extraordinary. Close to the fingerboard always sounds good to me, unless it's too close. At that stage, it is difficult to bow. However YMMV and I'd be interested on other opinions.
If you want to project, play close to the bridge, the closer, the harsher the sound, but there is an optimum.
As regards bowing open strings sul tasto, I find this awkward and notice no discernible difference when bowing in a more "neutral" position between finger board and bridge. I don't ever recall Mr Karr speaking of Son Premier and his sound was extraordinary. Close to the fingerboard always sounds good to me, unless it's too close. At that stage, it is difficult to bow. However YMMV and I'd be interested on other opinions.
