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Neck jig for fret level?

BaileyMan

Supporting Member
Jan 8, 2012
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Oly Pen
I've leveled frets exactly once. I bought an electric bass kit, built it for a friend, aside from the finishing, leveling the frets was the most difficult and frustrating part of the job for me.

I leveled the frets with outthe neck under any tension. The frets seemed fine until I strung up the bass. I went back and forth many times before finally getting it. I know that some folks recommend using a neck jig, saying that it's easier to get level frets under the same conditions as when it's strung. There are others who don't use jigs and I'm sure they get great results.

Help me understand the importance of using a jig when doing a fret level. And / or how does one properly level frets when there's no jig?

I ask, in part, because I've got a bass that needs a fret level. I would love to feel more confident leveling frets, and this isn't an instrument that I want to make beginner mistakes on. I'm not opposed to taking it in to get plek'd, my local shop has a great reputation, but I don't like the idea of leaving her with them for a week plus...
 
I've leveled frets exactly once. I bought an electric bass kit, built it for a friend, aside from the finishing, leveling the frets was the most difficult and frustrating part of the job for me.

I leveled the frets with outthe neck under any tension. The frets seemed fine until I strung up the bass. I went back and forth many times before finally getting it. I know that some folks recommend using a neck jig, saying that it's easier to get level frets under the same conditions as when it's strung. There are others who don't use jigs and I'm sure they get great results.

Help me understand the importance of using a jig when doing a fret level. And / or how does one properly level frets when there's no jig?

I ask, in part, because I've got a bass that needs a fret level. I would love to feel more confident leveling frets, and this isn't an instrument that I want to make beginner mistakes on. I'm not opposed to taking it in to get plek'd, my local shop has a great reputation, but I don't like the idea of leaving her with them for a week plus...

I think this thread from 2016 is the best discussion we've had about neck tensioning fixtures, how and why they are used, different designs, etc.:

Stewmac/Matt Vinson Style Neck Jig

Here's one of my posts from that thread, which is a quick overall summary to answer your question:

What I learned from several years of playing around with these string-tension fixtures is that they are very helpful for correcting necks that bend into uneven shapes under load.

But necks which are designed and built well will reliably pull into an even true relief curve as you adjust the truss rod. For those necks, this process isn't necessary. And it doesn't make the fretwork any truer or more precise.

There's a similar thing with the PLEK machines. A major feature of the PLEK machine is its ability to correct for uneven neck movement. It does a similar thing to these string tension fixtures, but it approaches it in a different way. It uses a precision sensing head to measure the movement of the neck, creates a corrective map in its little computer brain, then uses a small CNC grinding head to correctively grind the frets. If all its little calculations are correct, when the neck is back under load, the frets are true.

The string tension fixtures and PLEK are doing the same thing: correcting lumpy necks, without all the trial and error that an experienced Luthier would do during an old-fashioned fret leveling job. But they all achieve the same result, and the same level of accuracy in the "levelness" of the frets.

And, if the neck doesn't have any unusual lumps and dips, a normal fret leveling will achieve the same result, and the same level of accuracy.

String tension fixtures and PLEK machines are for fixing the difficult ones.

Whether you need it or not depends on what you are working on, and whether you require that high level of accuracy.
 
Ha! I forgot I even started that thread, great re reading it and seeing all Bruce's photos. The short answer is they are useful in certain circumstances. I've done two builds with mine, and it produced good necks and fretwork, so no complaints. I'll keep using mine because it gives me some confidence in knowing exactly what the neck is doing, but I can see how a Pro would find the setup and fiddly nature of the whole process a source of aggravation. One note about the Vinson plans, using a 2x4 as the main beam is nowhere near rigid enough. I ended up laminating plywood to the sides to stiffen it up. If I was to build another one I'd go to a jobsite or lumber yard and get a piece of LVL or other engineered lumber, you aren't bending that under any range of forces applied to a bass.
 
Rather than wonder about a jig, I would wonder about your process. And I mean that in a constructive sense - when I first started doing this kind of work, fret leveling seemed a bit terrifying and overwhelming. I had a hard time being consistent from end to end and side to side when I did my first neck or two. I was just nervous the whole time and the results were sloppy. But after a few necks, it became much more natural. I'm no pro by any stretch, but I am at the point where I can level frets without thinking about it, for the most part. It's one of those things that's hard to explain, but will click once you've gotten it, and then you'll be like, "huh, this isn't a big deal after all." So maybe you just need more practice. Because if your technique isn't there yet, a jig isn't going to solve anything.

I't also hard to speak to your exact experience with that kit bass, because it could have been "difficult" for a number of reasons. You may have leveled the frets just fine, but the neck had other issues. For instance, if a fret is loose in it's slot, it can act like a spring, and it'll compress downwards when you're leveling, since the file pushes it down into the slot. But then, the fret will pop back up afterwards when there's no pressure on it. And when you play the bass, you'll get buzz. Even if you have perfect leveling technique, a fret that acts like this will seem high no matter how much you try to level it. And a neck jig won't solve that problem. The fret needs to be replaced with one having a wider tang, or it's tang needs to be crimped, or it needs to be glued into it's slot. It can be hard to spot a loose fret like this, so you might just assume you need to level it more, and then you'll get frustrated when it seems like you're leveling correctly but still ending up with a problem. If your neck had problems like that, you may have been mis-placing the "blame" on your technique.

Regarding the bass you need the level on now - what issues does it have? Are there are few high/low frets, or is the whole thing worn out? Is the neck structurally intact and true (other than the frets)? If you've only got a few bad spots, you may be able to fix them without leveling the entire thing. Or there may be other problems that need addressing aside from any leveling.

Regarding jigs - I can respect that some people like them and use them for every neck, but personally I don't have a need for one and it strikes me as extra work. All necks change shape under tension - but well designed necks change shape in a nice predictable curve, and you can then adjust the degree of curve with the truss rod and end up with a predictably shaped neck. The key is that there is a known relationship between the relaxed shape and the shape under tension. A jig isn't adding any value on a neck that behaves well like that, since you can level it dead flat when it's relaxed and you'll end up with a perfectly curved shape under tension. Jigs only really help with necks that that are unpredictable - they don't curve in a nice smooth shape under tension for whatever reason. In those cases, the jig lets you work around the lack of predictability by letting you true the frets in their final shape, rather than in a relaxed shape that you know will behave predictably under tension. But even with an unpredictable neck, you can achieve the same end result just by measuring/observing where the wonkyness is, and over- or under-filing certain areas of the neck when leveling.

If you have a priceless or sentimentally important bass that has a really wonky neck, a jig or plek job probably makes sense. Otherwise, I'd rather either fix the root cause of the wonkyness or just replace the neck. And if your neck isn't wonky, you'd probably be better off forgetting about jigs and plek jobs, and just focusing on troubleshooting whatever issues the neck has, and/or refining your level technique. But either way, a jig strikes me as an advanced tool for troubleshooting known problems, not as something a beginner needs to worry about when first learning to do fretwork.
 
I don’t know what to add to Bruce or Dwizum’s comments. I have done probably a dozen fret levels and crowns without a jig to good results. Perhaps if you detail your process we can help you find areas where you can improve, hopefully in a positive manner.

If you feel the neck needs to be leveled under tension I think the Katana fret leveler is still being made and I believe StewMac recently came out with a leveling tool that works under the strings so a neck can be strung up. Either is expensive but less then buying a jig and less hassle then building one. I’ll leave it up to the individual how needed or effective that method is.
 
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But either way, a jig strikes me as an advanced tool for troubleshooting known problems, not as something a beginner needs to worry about when first learning to do fretwork.

Yes, that's exactly it. A good description.

Back in the days when I doing all that, I was using all of my engineering brain muscle to come up with a really good foolproof process for building necks and making the frets perfect. The idea of a neck tensioning jig made sense. So I developed the best one I could think of, and it worked quite well. But, over time as I got my whole neck building process worked out, I found that I didn't really need it any more. My necks and frets were accurate and consistent without need the neck tensioning fixture. I still have the fixture and technique here, if I ever need it again.

Remember, I'm in a production mode here, making only a couple of model necks over and over. For someone doing repair work, or custom/hobby building, that's a different story. Every neck may be different, and some may have problems which a tensioning fixture may help to solve.

I agree with Dwizum that neck tensioning fixtures are advanced level tools. If you are a hobbyist, working on your own instruments, first learn to do fretwork by the old-school techniques. Learn to do it well. You don't need a neck tensioning fixture or a PLEK machine to do a high quality accurate fret job. They are just modern tools to make the job faster.
 
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Wow guys! Thanks so much for these responses. Very helpful! Thanks for the link @Bruce Johnson and for the helpful things to consider @dwizum and @Matt Liebenau.

It makes more sense to me now why or when a jig can come in handy (i.e. necks that don't behave as expected / intended when under tension). I really like the idea that perhaps my struggle with neck from that kit was due to something about the neck. Being a newb likely played a part in it too. :-)

The neck that needs leveling is a Mike Lull P4, bought new 3 or 4 years ago, with a good amount of play time. There are some high frets above the 12th. I think they appeared after some direct indoor sun exposure in chilly San Francisco temperatures. I assume the neck is still in really solid shape.

Perhaps I'll practice on a beater squire bass I've got before jumping in to the Lull...

Thanks again!
 
Definitely practice on a beater. Or, even better, jump in head first and make your own neck to practice on. It seems like the quality of kit bass necks is pretty hit or miss, so who knows what was going on with the one you worked on. The good part about building your own neck is you get to be familiar with the entire "structure" and how all the components contribute to the final picture. And you can quality-control every component. Meanwhile, a kit maker might not care if there's a weird grain twist or a knot hidden in the middle of the neck, causing it to bend funny. Or if the frets aren't installed evenly, or leveled, or loose...

High frets that appear suddenly after a neck gets sun exposure would make me question if one or more of the frets have loosened in their slots, or if there's something else going on. If the sun exposure had caused the neck itself to move, I would expect it to either move back once conditions were returned to normal, or a truss rod tweak to fix it. You might need a fix other than leveling. I'd start by checking if the high frets are stable - see if you can slip a piece of paper or a really thin feeler gauge under the edge of the fret. If you can, clamp or press down hard on the top of the fret, and check again. If you suddenly can't slip the feeler gauge under the edge, the fret may be loose - you can fix a loose fret by putting a tiny drop of super glue on it and clamping it for a few hours. Check the frets above and below the one you suspect is the problem, too. Sometimes one fret being loose can make it seem like it's the next one up the board that's too high. If you do that test and the "gap" stays consistent, then yeah - it might be time for a level.

But if it's just a few frets, you may be best off targeting just those frets, versus leveling the entire fretboard. You can carefully bring a few frets down with the same flat file most people would use to level the whole board, or if you have a beveling file that's shallow enough to not bottom out on the fretboard, you can use that to file down a single fret at a time.

Before you do any filing though, mask off the fretboard, and mark a sharpie line on each fret in the problem area. The sharpie gives a good visual indicator of how much material you take off and how evenly you're working across the fret.

Stew-mac has a lot of good videos on subjects like this, if you can get bast the marketing salesmanship focused on getting you hooked on all their tools.
 
poking my head in the door from the "repair" side of things (i'm not a builder) i can attest to a good neck jig being a big help with my fretwork and even a timesaver!

by locking down the neck in its "straightest" state with gravity and string tension factored in, even if that means it's backbowed in spots, then leveling (or pulling the frets and leveling the wood) i know the results will be perfect when i'm done, which means i can skip a whole bunch of time hunting around for anomalies and spot-leveling afterwards.

these days i'm using the cool new aluminum stewmac version, which is in itself also a time-saver because it can be quickly adjusted to fit pretty much any size or shape instrument. i did a couple small mods to it, including adding wide padded plywood cauls to the body supports and bagging the sloppy nylon pull-down strap for a much more rigid pull-down bracket made from carefully bent .026" plain guitar string.
 
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coming from the build side of things i can't see the need for one of these as leveling is pretty easy. maybe for repair they are useful but the times when i've sorted out screwed up necks didn't require fixturing so i'm just not sure.
 
Having invested the time to make the low-budget Vinson Jig version, I'll keep using it for all my neck builds and fret leveling. The dial indicators are an immediate feedback on what's happening with the neck as you run a leveling beam along it. It's easy (for me anyway) to "dish" the frets in the middle applying too much pressure. I watch the dial indicators and try to keep any flex to an absolute minimum. If money was no object, I'd buy the Stewmac version, but at my glacial output, I could never justify the cost. Pricey Jig, aint it! If you have the skills to level without it, that's great, but I appreciate the confidence of knowing it's rigidly supported, if nothing else. I have a 93' Fender MIM P with classic Skijump (12th fret "kink") that I'll try to fix this winter, and I'll damn well use the jig.
 
poking my head in the door from the "repair" side of things (i'm not a builder) i can attest to a good neck jig being a big help with my fretwork and even a timesaver!

by locking down the neck in its "straightest" state with gravity and string tension factored in, even if that means it's backbowed in spots, then leveling (or pulling the frets and leveling the wood) i know the results will be perfect when i'm done, which means i can skip a whole bunch of time hunting around for anomalies and spot-leveling afterwards.

these days i'm using the cool new aluminum stewmac version, which is in itself also a time-saver because it can be quickly adjusted to fit pretty much any size or shape instrument. i did a couple small mods to it, including adding wide padded plywood cauls to the body supports and bagging the sloppy nylon pull-down strap for a much more rigid pull-down bracket made from carefully bent .026" plain guitar string.
do you have a photo of the guitar string setup? I agree, the pull-down strap kinda sucks. I used the synthetic strap from a boat battery box hold-down, but it stretches too much. I've seen Luthiers use a guitar tuner and string as clamps, that's what I'm picturing. That gives you really fine control on the adjustment.
 
rattlecan up there is closing cracks and gluing in cleats -and making an all you can eat buffet out of it. there's easier ways to do that work ime. i prefer a continental breakfast.
 
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do you have a photo of the guitar string setup?
A pic would help me too... I can't visualize using a guitar string! :D
here you go:

full&d=1568682765.jpg


.026" plain string (so thick it acts more like a bar than a string) pre-bent into a bracket that loops over the nut slot.

by using that bolt as a free-tilting crossmember it eliminates any twisting caused by one leg of the bracket being slightly longer than the other, and also serves to hold the legs out from the neck itself. i'll use a piece of veneer or even a cut-off section of zip-tie to keep it from digging into the neck wood itself.
That seems a bit excessive. I'd use a short length of small chain, with a small turnbuckle on one side and a sturdy hook on the other. That would be very rigid and easy to adjust and unhook.
tried a chain with high hopes, problem with chain or flexible cable is it puts all the force right on the outside corners of the neck, too easily marring it. the wire bracket is stiff enough that once bent into shape it's rigid enough to not dig so hard into those wood edges, while still being thin and flexible enough to conform to say a shallow, curved vintage strat nut slot. (i of course need to make the bracket just wide enough to fit around the neck in question, i'm accumulating a pile of them in different sizes as i go)

i'm imagining a thin but rigid cross-member that would lay in the nut slot and poke out the sides, allowing for small chain or cables to be attached to each end for the pulling-down. it would need to be narrow enough to drop into a fender nut slot and thin enough that it would sit below the top of said nut slot so that my sanding beam wouldn't hit it, and i suppose i'd need one for flat nut slots and one for curved nut slots. any metallurgical ideas @Bruce Johnson? :)

(i like the idea of the pull-down happening in the nut slot itself as opposed to behind the nut like the nylon strap does, since that string pressure happens right there at the nut)

(edit: now that i've written it down, it just occurred to me: is there plain "music wire" thicker than .026"? piano wire maybe? hmm...)
 
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while i'm at it, here's the other little mods i did that seemed no-brainers:

stewmac suggests using some loose wood slats that you sort of balance across the body support rods and then try to place the guitar on without everything falling off, that was just goofy. instead i attached big plywood cork-padded cauls to those rods. i can position them wherever i need with no trouble, even on weird curved bodies, with no risk of indentation.

full&d=1568682765.jpg


also you can see that the neck support rods have little flat bits of wood stuck on them, those replaced the crappy plastic tips the jig came with, complete with bulged-up tops with air gaps under them :(

the wood toppers seem to do a good job of eliminating any slop without being so hard they (again) mar the neck; once everything is all racked up and calibrated, i can knock on the fretboard and watch the dial indicators almost not move :)
 
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Nice! I thought you were actually using a tuner to crank down the string, which i still may try. Seems like you could use something like a bass G string and wrap it in shrink tube or surgical tubing to protect the neck, but the threaded setup you have looks pretty simple.
 
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