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- Feb 5, 2013
- 1,686
- 2,281
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- Endorsing Artist: Used Fender Lead Sleds and Hartke cabs with bent grills
There is something to that, I think. My Fenders had great thump but never sustained like my SR300/370/800.
Then again ... most of this stuff is in our heads. Whatever feels or sounds good to us ... is good.
madbass6
Inactive
- Jan 13, 2009
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- I do not give consent to use any of my photos ! please respect that. thank you.
just hunt for a used one of the same bass you tried out for that price range .Hey all,
The other day I had the opportunity to play an Ibanez BTB1805E at GC, and I was blown away by the lovely sustain and rich harmonic tones this instrument produced. The low notes seemed to have richer, more complex frequencies than any other bass I've played. I think I grasped what some TB-ers mean when they describe a bass's tone as "piano-like".
Having only ever owned 34" and 30" bolt-on neck basses, having never played a 35", and having never paid much attention to neck-thru vs. bolt-on, I am now wondering whether this great difference in tone is more likely derived from the neck-thru construction of the Ibby, or from its 35" scale. I'm sure both aspects have something to do with it, but I'm wondering whether one might contribute more greatly to the tone I'm talking about than the other.
The reason I'm asking is that I have small hands, and am therefore hesitant to purchase a 35" bass. So I'm wondering if a 34" neck-thru bass is likely to get me closer to this kind of sustain and rich tone, or whether the 35" scale might be what's making the big difference here. I'm sure the Aguilar pickups and zero fret have something to do with it as well, but the richness of tone and sustain seemed to be more of a physical thing that I could feel in the vibrations of the instrument, even when unplugged.
Even with my small hands I might end up springing for a less expensive BTB model (under $1000, hopefully closer to $500) in the same series, but if a 34" neck-thru bass (like an SR model) with similar pickups might get me closer to this rich harmonic content and sustain, I'm likely to opt for that.
Anyway, thanks for the input! Much appreciated!
I had a Peavey Grind for a while - 35" scale length, with a 5-piece through-neck. It was easily the weakest-sounding of all of my instruments, with very little brightness even with brand new Swing 66s on it. The most "piano-like" is probably my Ibanez RB800 (34" and a single-piece bolt-on neck), or my 4003W (2-piece through-neck, 33.75"). Even with year-old Blue Steels, the RB is far more sparkly-sounding than the Grind was.
Owned many basses over the years.
All of the neck-through's I've had crappy sustain and no measurable affect on tone.
35" is a game changer, especially for a Low B. My gripe with 35" though is that the G string can sound thin on a 5er.
All of the neck-through's I've had crappy sustain and no measurable affect on tone.
35" is a game changer, especially for a Low B. My gripe with 35" though is that the G string can sound thin on a 5er.
It's usually a combination of many things. None of which are really required if the other things are great. I've had a lot of great basses; stingray 5s, neck through and bolt on made in Germany warwicks, various other bolt on and neck through 34"scales, neck through 35", and my main player now is a dingwall thats 34-37" fan fret bolt on. I think the scale makes a much bigger impact if it's more dramatic. For example 37" low b sure there's def a noticable difference especially with feel and the fundemental being much more prominent, 34-35 other things factor in and I think they are similar enough that simply changing string gauges can make up most of the difference of 34-35" especially when it comes to how the string tension feels. Aguilar does make pretty good pickups. Neck stiffness and design is a big deal as well. There's pros and Cons to everything. For example necks that are 5or 6 pieces glued together can be really strong but can also sound more compressed and I've heard some people describe them as individuals pieces of wood resonate at different frequencies which causes some phase cancelling. Necks that aren't strong don't cut it either though. Maple is a pretty strong wood and the quartersawn maple necks imo are a decent compromise. Wenge necks can have nice warm 2nd and 3rd harmonic response. The crazy exotic stuff like carbon fiber, graphite, and aluminum necks are usually pretty punchy/ piano like. I've heard some basses that you'd think would suck like 32-33" scale basses with low B strings that actually sounded great (fodera and Benevente) but yeah I think it's a big combination of things. And you're likely to get different answers based on people's own experiences because of the particular basses they've owned.Hey all,
The other day I had the opportunity to play an Ibanez BTB1805E at GC, and I was blown away by the lovely sustain and rich harmonic tones this instrument produced. The low notes seemed to have richer, more complex frequencies than any other bass I've played. I think I grasped what some TB-ers mean when they describe a bass's tone as "piano-like".
Having only ever owned 34" and 30" bolt-on neck basses, having never played a 35", and having never paid much attention to neck-thru vs. bolt-on, I am now wondering whether this great difference in tone is more likely derived from the neck-thru construction of the Ibby, or from its 35" scale. I'm sure both aspects have something to do with it, but I'm wondering whether one might contribute more greatly to the tone I'm talking about than the other.
The reason I'm asking is that I have small hands, and am therefore hesitant to purchase a 35" bass. So I'm wondering if a 34" neck-thru bass is likely to get me closer to this kind of sustain and rich tone, or whether the 35" scale might be what's making the big difference here. I'm sure the Aguilar pickups and zero fret have something to do with it as well, but the richness of tone and sustain seemed to be more of a physical thing that I could feel in the vibrations of the instrument, even when unplugged.
Even with my small hands I might end up springing for a less expensive BTB model (under $1000, hopefully closer to $500) in the same series, but if a 34" neck-thru bass (like an SR model) with similar pickups might get me closer to this rich harmonic content and sustain, I'm likely to opt for that.
Anyway, thanks for the input! Much appreciated!
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I believe not all that is real can be measured by science. So just because science or engineering hasn't produced data to back "it" up doesn't necessarily meant "it" isn't real.
My experience has been that 35" scale makes low B strings sound better by giving them more harmonics that sustain for a bit longer. But that longer scale also thins out the sound of the other strings.
I've had neck-through but didn't notice any real difference in tone due to that. In fact my neck-through Carvin 5-string LB75 didn't sound as good as my bolt-on Carvin SB5000 (both 34" scale) and neither quite had the low B clarity of the Lakland 55-01 (35" scale).
My experience has been that 35" scale makes low B strings sound better by giving them more harmonics that sustain for a bit longer. But that longer scale also thins out the sound of the other strings.
I've had neck-through but didn't notice any real difference in tone due to that. In fact my neck-through Carvin 5-string LB75 didn't sound as good as my bolt-on Carvin SB5000 (both 34" scale) and neither quite had the low B clarity of the Lakland 55-01 (35" scale).
Thanks guys!
Hmmm... so I'm getting that there's not much consensus on this! I've heard a lot of different opinions and perspectives based on lots of different experiences, some of which contradict one another. So I know that the tone of any instrument comes from lots of different things construction-wise (and obviously electronics-wise as well), and that much of this can be subjective, and can also vary from instrument to instrument (enter the influence of mojo!). I guess I just need to get an instrument I like with lots of mojo; and if it has the sound I want, it has it!
I'm sure I'll keep wondering which of its characteristics make the sound so special though!
Hmmm... so I'm getting that there's not much consensus on this! I've heard a lot of different opinions and perspectives based on lots of different experiences, some of which contradict one another. So I know that the tone of any instrument comes from lots of different things construction-wise (and obviously electronics-wise as well), and that much of this can be subjective, and can also vary from instrument to instrument (enter the influence of mojo!). I guess I just need to get an instrument I like with lots of mojo; and if it has the sound I want, it has it!
I'm sure I'll keep wondering which of its characteristics make the sound so special though!
Sure, go hunt for that bass that sounds right to you with lots of cool mojo...
... and when you find it, clobber it with EQs, preamps, tube simulators and compressors like the rest of us do so until you can't tell what scale length or construction style it has because pedals are COOL!
My personal opinion is that while there is some debate about the impact of NT construction, lengthening the scale of a bass will absolutely impact the low notes. Look at a harp or a piano, or compare a bass to a guitar. A longer scale is desirable for low pitches. The few NT basses I've tried were great, but they had features that made them "better" to begin with. It is very hard to do an apples to apples comparison because you need identical basses to prove it.
I'd argue the exact opposite. My ears are physical devices, so if there isn't a physical difference in the vibrations in the air, my ears won't be able to pick them up. The measuring equipment might not be the same as my ears, or might have difficulty representing visually all the information, but if it's not a physical difference, I can't hear it.
However, it's also possible for other factors to affect how you perceive the impulses from your ears, such as age, tiredness, previous recent exposure to noise, or even the colour of the bass, very probably.
A synthesizer is an electric instrument, a bass is the same as a piano, both an acoustic source but amplified differently. Bass guitar simply IS an acoustic instrument where it's amplified via magnetic transference of the acoustic energy. A piano uses it's wooden box as the amplifier. Put magnetic pickups on a harpsichord and you get a Clavinet!
Since a bass string can only vibrate as low as it's fundamental which is present on any scale, it can be eq-ed into any shape. But your perception of the fundamental might be clearer on a longer scale, or at least more defined. "Piano like" isn't just about the low end.
"Normal performance levels", wow, I'm having an argument in favor of "normal" performance volume with someone right now, and while I say low end loudness is good, everything above 600hz 110db is admittedly probably causing damage and requiring protection. In the recording studio, the performance volume thing goes away, so specific tones can be heard. I don't see it as a valid argument to say "it doesn't matter when we play loud."
When the power goes off we're back to acoustic instruments anyway, maybe a gas generator could run your amp at the show. There'll be a line of cables running outside, one generator for every instrument, one for the lights, one for the furnace, and all together they will produce a 140db 40hz rumble and lots of smoke, can your amp cut through that? I speak of loosing power because this winter I lucked out and have not lost power, but thousands around here have, and I have in the past. It's always been temporary. so far.
I've had about 90 basses now but I'm no expert on these matters, I can only offer my observations. I've had 35" scale basses, neck thrus with little to no sustain. I've had bolt-on 34" scale basses with terrific sustain too. I think there's more to the picture and it's a combination of varying factors. The bridge, the nut, proper set up, frets all of proper height, the wood used on the body, even the kind of strings themselves all lend to a more resonant and "rich" sounding bass. I've had similar model basses or duplicates, so they would be of similar build and parts - one would have better sustain than the other. Maybe one has a badly cut nut or string saddle on the bridge that doesn't allow the strings to vibrate properly- or don't laugh, improperly installed strings. If you install a string "twisted", it's not going to sound resonant at all. There's a few threads here on TB regarding that.
I'd argue that the amplifier and cabinet are as much a musical instrument and part of "the bass" as the bass instrument itself. Just as an oscillator by itself does not a synthesizer make. But that would only lead to endless hairsplitting over definitions. And probably end up annoying the rest of the thread while we're having a good time.
So let's compromise and call it an electro-acoustic instrument and let it go at that. 
I read a very scientific article once testing neck-thru vs bolt that determined there was no diff. But I'd swear my SRX700 and now BTB846 had/have better sustain.
But then again ... my SR800 sustains for days and just vibrates beautifully.
Now I'm confused.
Huge difference. This is my very scientific opinion.
I've owned neck-throughs that were dull and meh and bolt ones that were vibrant alive and full frequency.
But to the poster it's bass to bass and different manufacturer to different manufacturer that will find you your Grail. No guarantee that this model from this maker and this construction will deliver what you want. One might, the one made right after that one, might not. The search is a lot of fun.
When some people play loud the size and shape of the room cause undesirable effects. People's ears get poor after prolonged exposure. When some people play loud their gear begins to distort so the details of the original tone become masked. So for them it doesn't matter when they play loud. Some gear sounds just as clear at huge volume as barely cranked.
