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Neckdive

BullHorn

BullHorn

Nov 23, 2006
1,838
43
www.youtube.com
#1
I've been whining about neckdive for months and nobody believed me. "Fender don't neck-dive" I've been told here numerous times.

I just got a webcam and glued up a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ZktFDkVhE

It seems to be extreme (Notice how a dropping distance of less than 30cm/a foot is enough for it to crash into my lap). Do you guys think a new set of Ultralight Hipshots and a BADASS III bridge would do any difference?
 
#3
I've been playing this J for about 2 years and only discovered what neckdive is last year. It hindered my playing, causing me to either use my left hand to hold the neck up or the right hand to push on the pickup really hard.

You don't know how annoying this is however I love the bass and don't want to sell her. I want to fix her. :(
 
#6
BullHorn said:
I've been whining about neckdive for months and nobody believed me. "Fender don't neck-dive" I've been told here numerous times.

I just got a webcam and glued up a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ZktFDkVhE

It seems to be extreme (Notice how a dropping distance of less than 30cm/a foot is enough for it to crash into my lap). Do you guys think a new set of Ultralight Hipshots and a BADASS III bridge would do any difference?
Click to expand...

The Fender is what made neck-dive famous, so don't listen to anyone who says your P or J doesn't do exactly what it does in your video ;).

Personally, I wouldn't put another red cent into it trying to fix the problem - all that's going to do is send you to the rubber room. If you can come up with a no-cost solution, like an extension to the upper horn to make it balance better on the strap, go for it.

But if it costs money, the right thing to do is get rid of the Fender and go to another bass that fixes this problem. With other Fender style instruments, it'll be hit-miss as to whether it'll have poor balance, so you may have to shop for a while.

But you're going to be a lot better off going to a bass that fixes this as part of the design. Fortunately, there are a growing number of designs that are sensitive to this, i.e. the Carvin Bunny is designed from the git-go to have good balance. Conklin has a line of basses out now with extended upper horns, MTD's have good balance, and so on.

Just Say No to the torture of neck dive and replace the bass!

LS
 
#8
Another post in this thread made me think of something; how much does the bass weigh? How does it compare to the nomimal weight of a J-bass with like-wood bodies and neck (fretboard)? You may have a body with a very light cut of the wood. Have you checked other J-basses?
 
#10
Mine weighs 4kg, last I checked it's a maple body, a maple neck and a maple fretboard.

In my experience a wider strap doesn't 'fix' neck-dive, it might just help you fight it more effectively however the neck-dive is still there and it will either pull your shirt down or slide down either way.
 
#11
BullHorn said:
Mine weighs 4kg, last I checked it's a maple body, a maple neck and a maple fretboard.

In my experience a wider neck doesn't 'fix' neck-dive, it might just help you fight it more effectively however the neck-dive is still there and it will either pull your shirt down or slide down either way.
Click to expand...

Not to jump in again, but to save you some time - the wide-strap idea won't work as you've already noticed. Weights, straps, multiple attach points and goofy harnesses, etc., all that stuff has been tried and those guys are only just now getting out of the insane asylum....

As I said, tho, you might squirrel out and find a Fender or other Fender style that has good balance by accident, so it may not be a lost cause. I.e. my G&L L2000 is perfectly balanced even tho it has the typical Leo Fender body style. G&L uses aluminum hardware at the headstock which helps a little bit, but mine happens to have a swamp ash body that weighs 100lbs. And the neck is a #8 fretless which is just a tiny little stick. So it just so happens to have perfect balance and I can therefore use it.

So if you really want a Jazz bass, there may be hope if you just do a lot of shopping. But then again if you don't want to go through all that, there are lots of Jazz style instruments by other manufacturers out there that do have good balance by design, or at least better balance than the Fender.

But save yourself the heartache of the strap thing - that's classic denial ;).

LS
 
#13
Wide strap will work for sure...just make it the right wide strap. There are alot of cheaper ones, forget about it. I have a thunderbird and as ASAT bass, supposedly the worst for neck dive....have a couple of 4 inchers one leather, and one neoprene backed with webbing...I think a planet waves....they work well.


Or get a new bass!!!!:hyper:
 
#15
unclejane said:
...If you can come up with a no-cost solution, like an extension to the upper horn to make it balance better on the strap, go for it...
Click to expand...

One of my 6-string basses has the worst neck-dive I've ever encountered. It seems that the balance point is about 2 or 3 inches beyond the upper strap button.

I've been thinking about drilling the upper horn and gluing in a 1/2" wood dowel, then putting the strap button on the end of that. My concern is that the dowel might not be strong enough.

Any thoughts?
 
#16
wcriley said:
One of my 6-string basses has the worst neck-dive I've ever encountered. It seems that the balance point is about 2 or 3 inches beyond the upper strap button.

I've been thinking about drilling the upper horn and gluing in a 1/2" wood dowel, then putting the strap button on the end of that. My concern is that the dowel might not be strong enough.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've done that - on my old gibson tobias 6 string (thankfully stolen out of my apt last year, may it R.I.P.). The trick is indeed making it strong enough. I used the longest drywall screw I could find down at the local Home Depot and an aluminum sleeve with washers at each end.

It'll work but you really have to grind away on the bass and drill a gigantic hole - so you have to not worry about resale and looks.

On mine I managed to get a 3" extension which was almost enough. It still dove a little but it was a lot better.

A much better solution is to sell the bass and get a balanced one from the get-go. I have a Carvin Bunny 6 string which is balanced pretty good right out of the box. It doesn't balance quite as good my 4 string, but it's definitely serviceable on the strap and settles at around the 45 deg. position.

There are other solutions like Conklin, MTD, etc. where you can get a balanced 6 string. I was so glad those thieves came and stole my gibson tobias; it gave me the perfect excuse to get the Bunny instead....

LS
 
#17
Neck dive when sitting and supporting the bass in your lap and that when you are standing with a strap are different because the balance points of the support are different. While sitting, if you are playing right handed, supporting the bass on your left knee rather than your right will help.

A wide strap will help for the standing position if the dive is not too severe; it depends upon friction over your shoulder to keep it in place and there will be a bit of shearing force that is always there. If the dive is severe, all the wide strap will do is to try take your shirt with it as the neck dives. That, or the part of the strap between your shoulder and the butt end of the bass will go slack and the neck will dive anyway. If you hang the bass from the forward strap button and the neck dives, a wide strap won't help.

I have successfully counteracted a couple of pretty severe cases of neck dive by using a strap threaded through a 1 lb SCUBA weight at the butt end.
 
#19
BullHorn said:
Mine weighs 4kg
Click to expand...
4 kg is on the light side and with a light body and heavy tuners neck-dive is unavoidable. What year and make is your Fender? Pictures would help especially back of headstock. My CIJ 57 RI Fender P had that problem and a set of Ultralite tuners fixed it. If you have vintage tuners I recommend that option, but that'll cost around $80-$100.
last I checked it's a maple body
Click to expand...
I don't know if Fender ever did maple body. Are you sure?
 
#20
unclejane said:
I've done that - on my old gibson tobias 6 string (thankfully stolen out of my apt last year, may it R.I.P.). The trick is indeed making it strong enough. I used the longest drywall screw I could find down at the local Home Depot and an aluminum sleeve with washers at each end.

It'll work but you really have to grind away on the bass and drill a gigantic hole - so you have to not worry about resale and looks.

On mine I managed to get a 3" extension which was almost enough. It still dove a little but it was a lot better. ...
Click to expand...

Hmm...hadn't thought using a long screw. Might work as a temporary thing to experiment with how long the extension needs to be.

I'm not worried about resale value. Through a series of flips, it only cost me $30 out of pocket. I'd really like to cure the dive problem because it's the lightest 6 I own.
 

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