Need advice after first experience with flats

[FirewalZ]

I have LaBella DTF's on my P bass and for me it depends on the room. Some rooms I get a great classic sound, others it's a dull, muddy mess that no eq can clear up. I probably need to bring two basses to gigs, one bass strung with flats and another with rounds.

 

[bluesblaster]

IMO, flats work better on a jazz bass than a P in a live setting, you may also have to EQ the amp a bit differently than you would with your RW strung bass. I use a couple J basses in a rock setting strung w/ Labella flats and it works just dandy.

 

[hsech]

I use La Bella flats on my Gibson SG Short Scale and Chromes or Fender Flats on my Fender basses. The Gibson is my only bass with humbuckers. With the flats, it is a thundering low end, even using my Markbass combo and extension cabinet.

 

[40Hz]

Man, you guys are cracking me up. Change EQ for flats vs. rounds? I hardly change my EQ from room to room

If I need to cut more when playing flats, I just pluck closer to the bridge. If I want the rounds to sound, eh, rounder I just pluck closer to the neck. Attack I mostly control by how I pluck the strings.

Except plucking closer to the bridge also changes the overall 'envelope' of the note and gives it a quicker and sharper attack characteristic - which may not necessarily be what you're looking for. And attack dynamics aren't (to me at least) the what most need to be addressed if you're not "cutting through."

Not to diminish the importance of good fingering technique. But fingering technique isn't the only, or even necessarily the best answer for some issues. Sometimes a little boost or cut on a certain frequency range fixes things quite nicely.

 

[Freekmagnet]

One thing I'd point out to the OP is that with flats - especially LaBellas - "cutting through the mix" is not necessarily the name of the game. It's all about providing a strong fundamental tone that supports the low end of the band. Once you learn how to play with flats your job really becomes a thing where you're really driving feel of the song and bringing the band comfortably into the next chord change. If you're really doing it right, and really locking in with a really solid drummer, the band sounds enormous.

Everybody approaches playing bass differently. If what you're really after is to every nuance of your fingering and picking heard above the din of the guitars, drums and keyboards, then perhaps flats are not for you. Personally, I like flats - the deader the better - because I can really make the bass "punch" by the way I hit the strings with my right hand. Somehow with rounds, all those weird overtones diminish that thumpiness for me.

I play a P, a J and a Stingray - all strung with different brands of flats. I use LaBellas on the P, Sadowskis on my J and my MM. I'm thinking about changing brands for the Stingray 'cuz the Sadowskis are too bright for that bass. I'm using a LM Jeff Berlin combo with the EQ flat. VLE I have at about 7o'clock and the VPF at about 9:30. I suspect I use the VPF because the MB115 is really honky-sounding to me.

I'm playing in a 7-piece with guitar, drums and a horn section. I don't have any trouble hearing myself onstage, and neither do the other guys.

 

[mpdd]

the La Bellas with a G&L sb-2 are a lot more present and cutting than with some other basses

 

[franvarin]

Lot's of good info in this thread. For what it's worth, I've used flats for quite a while. I like the even sound they provide. I discovered Ernie Ball Cobalts just recently and absolutely love them. They are very bright bordering on rounds but with0ut all the buzz. They maintain the feel of a flat but are tons brighter. Give a set a try at some point and see how you like them.

 

[john_g]

I also have the LMII and I turn off the filters and adjust lows and low mids down depending on how much mud Im getting. I sometimes play with flats and I find that I get lower than the guitars, but dont "cut through" as much. More of a gut punch. I like Chromes when I want more bite, though Im surprisingly sensitive to the higher tension. OP could also look into something like GHS Pressurewounds which I really like too.

 

[monsterthompson]

Gonna throw my hat in with a suggestion to try chromes. I preferred them to LaBella and found them to be at opposite ends of the tone spectrum for flats.

 

[Fondsdale]

Flats sit better in the mix as you have less overtones and more fundamental. Rounds conflict with the other players frequency ranges (the treble is in the same range as guitars, keys, vocals, cymbals) which can make it harder to be heard.
When I've used flats (GHS, Fender) I found it much easier to be heard. I haven't tried Labellas but most report them to be pretty thumpy, maybe try some Fender flats or Chromes as they're brighter than the Labellas by most reports.

What were your EQ settings? (maybe try boosting the mids, don't boost bass if you find the tone muddy) Did you have the tone knob open?

Flats sound better without a tweeter IMO, maybe try turning it off.

Also it could just be the room you were playing in, some spaces really amplify low bass frequencies and make you sound like a muddy mess. There's a reason most studio spaces use numerous bass traps to tame the low end.

 

[Dbassmon]

Before you go nuts with EQ, do yourself a favor, record the gig. Pbass with flats are notorious for sounding nondescript and muddy when you are standing next to them. Out front, its most likely gorgeous, chocolaty, organic, fat and present. When you start EQing for what you hear next to the Amp, most likely its harsh and nasty out front. If you love the sound of the recording, you will learn to comfy with what you are hearing next to the amp. A recording is the only way to tell what you really have unless you have a wireless rig and walk 15 feet in front of the rhythm section to listen. FWIW

 

[kleinenenten]

Flats take a bit of time to figure out. I just figured my EQ out a few months ago after over a year with flats. Now I cut just as much as with rounds, AND the lows are more present. Of course, part of that could be my preference for zingier flats (Chromes), but I will say I had to change EQ a good deal. I leave treble flat, boost the heck out of my mids, and reduce bass just a tiny bit (I used to crank it a good deal to get my desired level of lows). I also use an HPF to keep the mix tight and not destroy my cabs. It's an investment of time, but it's worth it! And to those who say flats only work in certain styles, I disagree. They CAN work in any style, but as with anything, each string is different, each rig is different, each player is different. Ultimately, you have to put in the time to make it work for you and your music.

Good luck, and remember to have fun! And if it's just not doing it for you, use rounds!

 

[StudioGC]

I use a GK MB 212 and love the way flats sound out of that amp. Also, just did a gig and borrowed the drummers bass amp a GK a head with 410 cab and again, great sound with flats. Did another band practice and used the guitarists in house monster 215 cab and no matter how much eq tweeting I did my bass sound was one big pot of mud and I could barely hear the notes I was playing through the dark murk.

 

[brianrost]

Sometimes a little boost or cut on a certain frequency range fixes things quite nicely.

That is of course true...I just don't bother I only touch the EQ if something sounds out of whack which isn't that often. I always think that I'm missing somethign but I can spedn ten minutes dialing in and just end up where I started

I have a friend who sits in on my rig often and he spends a minute or two dialing in some EQ settings by ear, but regardless of the bass he brings...dead stock P bass, StingRay, Hamer 8 string, Jerry Jones...and what rig I bring he always gets the "piano string" sound with a thunderous bottom, whether pick or fingerstyle.

 

[40Hz]

That is of course true...I just don't bother I only touch the EQ if something sounds out of whack which isn't that often. I always think that I'm missing somethign but I can spedn ten minutes dialing in and just end up where I started

I have a friend who sits in on my rig often and he spends a minute or two dialing in some EQ settings by ear, but regardless of the bass he brings...dead stock P bass, StingRay, Hamer 8 string, Jerry Jones...and what rig I bring he always gets the "piano string" sound with a thunderous bottom, whether pick or fingerstyle.

I'm like that with one bass I own. I can dial in my working sound for that thing in about 5 seconds flat no matter what I plug it into, or where I'm playing. But I've been playing that same bass since 1974, so I know its quirks inside out.

Funny thing about all those EQ settings is that myself and most bassists I've known have their "road" or "work" sound. And all the EQ settings they have at their disposal are pretty much there only to get them that sound. It's all in their hands after that. So I hear where you're coming from. If I had to regularly futz with knobs and dials for 10 minutes, I'd take your approach and just live with it and try to get what I'm looking for purely by playing technique. Which is no big negative really. Anybody who plays upright does exactly that.

In my perfect world there would be only a volume knob on my amp and no controls at all on my instrument. But since nobody makes a bass just for me that can read my mind and do absolutely everything I want precisely when I want it, I'll have to settle on occasionally dithering with some switches and knobs.

 

[bass.slinger]

I would say that the Aggies are the issue - I had one of the GS-112s and found it be the muddiest sound live. The mid-scoop was horrible even with a jazz bass with maple neck, 70's pickup spacing, neck pu rolled back a bit, and Rotosound round wounds. Could not get rid of that cabinet fast enough - even the drummer at the end of the gig told me to never bring that speaker to another one. Granted, I normally play an Eden XLT but was talked into trying out the Aggie when I was looking for a smaller speaker. Yes, I know I could have eq'd the snot out of it, but why keep something that needed that much help?

 

[bass.slinger]

I'm like that with one bass I own. I can dial in my working sound for that thing in about 5 seconds flat no matter what I plug it into, or where I'm playing. But I've been playing that same bass since 1974, so I know its quirks inside out.

Funny thing about all those EQ settings is that myself and most bassists I've known have their "road" or "work" sound. And all the EQ settings they have at their disposal are pretty much there only to get them that sound. It's all in their hands after that. So I hear where you're coming from. If I had to regularly futz with knobs and dials for 10 minutes, I'd take your approach and just live with it and try to get what I'm looking for purely by playing technique. Which is no big negative really. Anybody who plays upright does exactly that.

In my perfect world there would be only a volume knob on my amp and no controls at all on my instrument. But since nobody makes a bass just for me that can read my mind and do absolutely everything I want precisely when I want it, I'll have to settle on occasionally dithering with some switches and knobs.

I agree with the single knob on the amp. However, I often make adjustments between my two jazz bass pickups depending on the song - both full up for bassy sound, neck rolled back a bit for bite, tone down for reggae, etc.

 

[FirewalZ]

Before you go nuts with EQ, do yourself a favor, record the gig. Pbass with flats are notorious for sounding nondescript and muddy when you are standing next to them. Out front, its most likely gorgeous, chocolaty, organic, fat and present. When you start EQing for what you hear next to the Amp, most likely its harsh and nasty out front. If you love the sound of the recording, you will learn to comfy with what you are hearing next to the amp. A recording is the only way to tell what you really have unless you have a wireless rig and walk 15 feet in front of the rhythm section to listen. FWIW

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Most of the places I play are small and the bass is stage volume only, i'm fairly close to the amp and standing near it sounds dull and lifeless. However I will still get compliments on my tone. I think its the rooms with lower ceilings, lots of carpet and plush surfaces that tend to trigger this more often.

 

[rafitoprtx]

I was a big fan of labellas is my esp b50 because the j pickup was very thin with a lot of treble. But they dont work well in my pbass. I change them to fender flats and they work for a while but my worship leader crank thr volume of his keyboard and mess up the whole mix. Recently i change to fender nickel rounds and the help me a lot. Sometimes the trends dont apply to everybody. I use pressurewounds in my 5 string with humbuckers and i love them but im afraid that they wont wor well with the pbass because they sound like flats in a month. I will try the dunlop super bright next.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I'm like that with one bass I own. I can dial in my working sound for that thing in about 5 seconds flat no matter what I plug it into, or where I'm playing. But I've been playing that same bass since 1974, so I know its quirks inside out.

Funny thing about all those EQ settings is that myself and most bassists I've known have their "road" or "work" sound. And all the EQ settings they have at their disposal are pretty much there only to get them that sound. It's all in their hands after that. So I hear where you're coming from. If I had to regularly futz with knobs and dials for 10 minutes, I'd take your approach and just live with it and try to get what I'm looking for purely by playing technique. Which is no big negative really. Anybody who plays upright does exactly that.

In my perfect world there would be only a volume knob on my amp and no controls at all on my instrument. But since nobody makes a bass just for me that can read my mind and do absolutely everything I want precisely when I want it, I'll have to settle on occasionally dithering with some switches and knobs.

The knobs are there primarily, in my opinion, to adjust for different rooms and stages.