need help amp / speaker problem

[Bass_Pounder]

9v

 

[will33]

9 volt is easiest just because the terminals will match up with the plug without having to rig up any extra wires, but any typical flashlight battery (AA, C, D, etc.) will work too.

Don't hold it on there, just touch it and watch the cones jump.

 

[P bass guy]

10-4

I'm going to RadioShack soon to get a 9v batter clip and will run this test. I'll report back with my findings, especially if I still have questions. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

10-4

I'm going to RadioShack soon to get a 9v batter clip and will run this test. I'll report back with my findings, especially if I still have questions. Thanks so much for your help.

Don't need a clip, or anything special.

Just place the 9v alongside your 1/4 cable. Touch the tip to the +, then rest the neg to the barrel of the jack.

 

[P bass guy]

Thanks man. I was over thinking it as usual. That worked. Both jumped out the same. So that's a good sign. Thanks.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Thanks man. I was over thinking it as usual. That worked. Both jumped out the same. So that's a good sign. Thanks.

Good.........

Only other thing to maybe be concerned about is if you creased the cones from over excursion. It will almost look like water stains around the outer part of the cone.

The cab will still sound good at lower volumes, but fart out bad when played louder.

 

[will33]

Thanks man. I was over thinking it as usual. That worked. Both jumped out the same. So that's a good sign. Thanks.

Then at least they both still work....sort of. Couple other effects of running them that hard can be the voicecoils getting deformed from too much heat and rubbing against the sides of the gap they ride in. That's like really quick temporary shorts that'll make a staticy, scratchy type distortion sound.

Creased cones...from making them pump back and forth farther than they're designed to.

Possibly smacking the coils against the backplate of the magnet...for the same reason (over excursion).

Possibly glue seams coming loose on the surrounds, again from over excursion.

If you can't find any of those problems and the speakers sound normal at normal volumes for a 210...might've got lucky and you were just hearing the distortion you get before damage/failure.

Use 2 cabs from here on out and don't blow your ears. They don't make replacement ears.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

They don't make replacement ears.

This can't be repeated enough.

 

[P bass guy]

Sound good at low volume, fart out bad at high volume you say?

Kind of looks like water stains on the outer part of the cone you say?

Does it look something like this?

• 

  creased cone?

  • P bass guy
  • Jun 2, 2014

 

[will33]

Yup....looks like that.

Can call around and see if a speaker repair shop can recone them...if recone kits are available. Reconing reuses the magnet and frame but replaces everything else, so it's essentially like getting new speakers for cheaper than actual new speakers.

If you can't get that done, you'll need replacement speakers. Being they are OEM proprietary to the cab maker, they'll be expensive.

There would be some other aftermarket speakers that'll work in the cab, but they won't sound just like the Edens. Or whoever it was that made your cab, I think you mentioned Eden.

 

[P bass guy]

Well, thank you sir. You have been very helpful in diagnosing my problem. You are correct that it is a David Eden cabinet. A quick glance online supports your assessment that there really is no "recommended replacement" other than original Eden speakers and they'll be expensive. I'll price reconing options tomorrow. I clearly have some decisions to make. I honestly wasn't in love with this cab and may just go another direction entirely. (I'm bummed right now, but my knee jerk reaction is to say I'm just done with 10's)

Excuse my ignorance, as clearly there was some ignorance involved here every step of the way, but - how could this happen? The cab was rated at 350 watts RMS and the amp rated at 250 Watts. I thought I was safe no matter what. Clearly not, still don't understand why!

Another dumb question. I have rehearsal tomorrow. I guess I have 3 choices as to what to do for tomorrow night.

1) use this sketchy 2x10" in addition to my perfectly good 1x15" and hope that's somehow better.

2) just use my perfectly nice (and also expensive) 1x15" alone and hope I don't blow that one up too.

3) run down to bass northwest and buy this used DIY 4 ohm 2x15" they have for sale for 149 bucks and see if it sounds okay?
(Edit: it's described as "custom built 2 x15 speaker cab (4 ohm) w/ 2 x 15 MTX" ...I just googled MTX and I think they're car audio sub's... Probably not a good choice)

I'm leaning toward option 1 as I somehow feel the second cab will take the pressure off this 210 and maybe keep my sound from disappearing when I go to the low E. What further bad can happen?

 

[will33]

A. The "watt" ratings on most speakers is pretty much just an indication of how much power, in the form of heat, the coil of wire that is the voice coil can handle before it burns up. With a bass, or anything pushing low frequencies, it is possible to make the speaker move farther than it is made to and damage it physically, rather than electrically, with a good deal less power than the "watt rating". That's what happened here with the creased cones.

Depending on the design of the speaker, it may only handle as little as half the watt rating worth of bass before it starts to distort/starts risking damage. The design and porting of the cabinet also plays a factor in this. Most manufacturers don't reveal those sort of specs, so we are left to just sort of guess and turn down if we hear distortion from our speakers.



B. Still using the 210 like it is together with the 15 would take some pressure off it, and you'd at least have one good cab hitting low notes. Not sure I'd do that though. The 210 is already damaged, but damaging it further could lead to an electrical short that could also damage the amp.


C. Using your 15 cab by itself is another option, but you'll likely blow it too trying to make it play as loud as you are.


D. If there is a cheap 215 somewhere for $150, I'd at least go give it a listen. Might at least be a short term solution and you'd probably be able to sell it later for the same $150...if it still works.


E. Turn down. .

 

[will33]

Some of the articles under the "Older Technical Articles" section at the Barefaced Bass site does a good job of explaining the disparity between real world, low frequency, bass power handling and output vs. speaker "watt" ratings.

Namely stuff on Power Handling and Volume Displacement, but they're all good reads.

http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm

 

[P bass guy]

I think that cheap cab I saw is maybe not a great idea. Kind of a desperate move...

I'm kind of leaning toward combination of C and E.

C. Use the undamaged 15 cab to avoid damaging my amp
and
E. turn down.

Seems the safest from what your saying.

I'll check your recommended reading to see if I can learn more. Thanks.

 

[INTP]

While wearing ear protection is a good thing, doing so while pushing your amp/cabinet to the limit will mean you won't hear when it's distorting, and that will increase the likelihood that you'll damage the cabinet. When it starts sounding bad, turn down.

Maybe just get IEM's. The guitar player isn't listening to the bass anyway, from what you describe.

 

[David Jayne]

- how could this happen? The cab was rated at 350 watts RMS and the amp rated at 250 Watts. I thought I was safe no matter what. Clearly not, still don't understand why!

Because the power rating is typically spec'd at 1khz.

A. The "watt" ratings on most speakers is pretty much just an indication of how much power, in the form of heat, the coil of wire that is the voice coil can handle before it burns up. With a bass, or anything pushing low frequencies, it is possible to make the speaker move farther than it is made to and damage it physically, rather than electrically, with a good deal less power than the "watt rating". That's what happened here with the creased cones.

Depending on the design of the speaker, it may only handle as little as half the watt rating worth of bass before it starts to distort/starts risking damage. .

[/QUOTE]

 

[P bass guy]

Found a guy to recone at reasonable price. Going in today. Thanks again guys.

 

[eriky4003]

P bass guy,
A lot of the smarter people aren't looking in on this thread. A rule of thumb I've read on TB is to take the speaker ratings and divide by 2 to get how many watts you should send to your cabinet, in your case 175. Your amp can send 250 watts so you're going to want to give yourself some cushion and the big problem is that amps do not have linear volume. Sometimes the volume gets goosed early and then doesn't send much volume past a 7 or 8 setting. The other cabinet is a good idea once you have the 2x10 re-coned. Ideally, a matched cabinet will get you there.
Good luck.

 

[P bass guy]

Thanks for that. My other cabinet matches up pretty well. It's a 1x15" same brand (400 watt RMS vs this ones 350) and I really like how they sound together.

I've been Skipping the bottom cab out of sheer laziness.

Just so I'm clear, once I'm using two cabs (daisy chained together) is each cab getting half of the power? If my amp puts out 250 watts, is each cabbing getting 125 watts?

 

[Joedog]

Use both cabs. A 210 simply can't hang with a crazy loud band. I've turned down more than one offer to join bands that can't control volume. To me it always means the band sounds like crap, even w/quality players. Having said that, I've played in lots of bands where a 210 don't cut the mustard.