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Need help keeping a guitarist in check

S

Sendaii

Nov 15, 2009
70
1
Newcastle, UK
#1
Hey guys,

I'm quite new to mixing live sound, and I've just scored a job mixing sound for a musical. The sound is fine according to the cast and other crew members right until the last song, which is a hard rock song. The problem I have is that I get the levels right and the lead guitarist keeps turning up his guitar without telling anyone, despite the fact that he drowns out the rhythm guitarist, the bassist, the vocalists and the two keyboard players. We can only just about hear the drums, which aren't miked. Then he hits the limiter, and everything sounds awful. He says that he can't hear himself, but he has an amp blaring next to his head and the room that we in isn't particularly large or noisy. I've also offered him IEMs, which he refused. Short of gluing the volume knob on his amp to the right position, is there any way that I can keep his volume in check?

Thanks.
 
#2
So the volume level of his amp is fine for softer songs?

My first thought was, if the funds are available, invest in an in-ear monitor for him.

Perhaps he is actually too close to his amp. May sound counter-intuitive but try having him stand further away, say 12-20 feet, if possible.
 
#4
4lPh4n0m3g4 said:
So the volume level of his amp is fine for softer songs?

My first thought was, if the funds are available, invest in an in-ear monitor for him.

Perhaps he is actually too close to his amp. May sound counter-intuitive but try having him stand further away, say 12-20 feet, if possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, his levels are fine for the softer songs. He isn't involved much in those, the music is quite bass guitar and keys orientated, but when he is, they are OK. I've already asked if he wanted an IEM, but he said no. I think that we might have a spare wedge hidden away somewhere, I'll ask if he wants to use it if I can dig it out.
 
#5
in a situation where stage volume is a problem, use a pod! for some situations it's just better. plus it gets rid of his amp altogether. he can use a wedge or an in ear to hear himself better. it's hard to get used to, but once i embraced the technology instead of fighting against it, I really liked playing with a pod.

other than that...get him an amp stand. that will get the amp off the ground and pointed at his ear. guitar amps are very directional so an amp on the floor close to you is very hard to hear.
 
#7
He already has the amp at head height. The set up that we have for both of the guitars and bass is the instrument running into the effect pedals, then the amp, then a DI out from the amp to the patchboard, and then to my mixing desk at the back of the room. The keyboards just go direct, and neither of the players have reported any problems of not being able to hear themselves.
 
#8
Sendaii said:
Yeah, his levels are fine for the softer songs. He isn't involved much in those, the music is quite bass guitar and keys orientated, but when he is, they are OK. I've already asked if he wanted an IEM, but he said no. I think that we might have a spare wedge hidden away somewhere, I'll ask if he wants to use it if I can dig it out.
Click to expand...


After being offered an in-ear he still continues to turn up his amp!?

Now it just sounds like he's just being a ****

Hopefully the wedge will fix his problem.

If he isn't going to listen to you, it sounds like he needs a serious talking to by the stage manager or whoever is running the play; before his problem, becomes the rest of the productions.




MrTAteMyBalls said:
in a situation where stage volume is a problem, use a pod! for some situations it's just better. plus it gets rid of his amp altogether. he can use a wedge or an in ear to hear himself better. it's hard to get used to, but once i embraced the technology instead of fighting against it, I really liked playing with a pod.
Click to expand...

The best stage sound I have ever heard was when the whole band used IEM's and no amps, and the drummer played a V-drum kit. Awesome mix, great levels and sound checking was a breeze.
 
#10
Sendaii said:
He already has the amp at head height. The set up that we have for both of the guitars and bass is the instrument running into the effect pedals, then the amp, then a DI out from the amp to the patchboard, and then to my mixing desk at the back of the room. The keyboards just go direct, and neither of the players have reported any problems of not being able to hear themselves.
Click to expand...

well, if it's at head height and he still can't hear it, then he has a problem that you probably can't fix.

Anyways.....back to the pod suggestion. he will get a much better distortion sound on the hard rock tune with a POD then going direct from the board on the back of the amp. it's the power section/speaker that smoothes out the fuzz and naturally rolls the high end off on a dist sound. that's why it's typical to mike up a guitar amp. the pod does this already without the hassle of using an amp or mic.
 
#11
It's time for some tough love, buddy. He's ruining the show because of A). the usual guitard ego trip, or B). because he's an amateur. You need to agree upon a level for that part of the show during rehearsals, and troubleshoot the problem before the show. A compromise will have to be met, which will probably involve him having to deal with it. Tell him if he moves his volume above the point you agree upon, you'll toss him out. As the sound man, your decision is final and non-negotiable, and you need to assert your authority - it's his job to play, and your job to make sure everything sounds good.
 
#12
4lPh4n0m3g4 said:
True, if the production can be held up for that to occur. Most sets are on a pretty tight schedule though and that simply isn't feasible sadly.
Click to expand...

Bingo. We don't have long left until the production goes out, so we can't kick him out. Don't get me wrong, he's a talented musician, but he's they type of guy who thinks that the guitar is the most important instrument. Even the director's starting to get pissed off with him, and he's not the type of guy who angers easily.
 
#18
gumtownbassman said:
do a quick recording so that mostly the guitar is captured (make 10X louder than it actually is), and play it back to everyone, asking for their (and the guitarists)suggestions on the mix.
Click to expand...

The guitarist will just ask for it to be higher. I know the type, no solution other than an ultimatum that he accept proper stage monitoring levels. Tell him if he raises amp level he will get pulled from the FOH entirely until the end of the performance, and after that evening he will have to look for another gig. If he disagrees you are better off knowing now he is intractable and you must find a new guitarist.
 

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