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Need help putting together a PA

#22
Stumbo said:
Would you be able to post your PA equipment list? That would probably be helpful to a many TBr's.
Click to expand...


I'll have to do an inventory.. like noted.. I scour the local classifieds and buy this stuff like a nervous habbit.

We do not play heavy metal or punk stuff.. vocal based pop.. acoustic adult contemporary.. smooth jazz and church pop.

It took me about 2 years to get the intial setup... is not one that most folks would say is cool... my focus is the sum of the parts --- not finding the best in for individuals.. geeze you can buy an alesis 31 band stereo EQ all day for $25 - not the best.. will get you started.. you can always donate it when done.

Reason I did all the piecing together is it's common for my theme band to be booked for a wedding dinner acoustic set on Saturday.. then a car show on Sunday... we have to right size the gear to the room.

Off the top of my head.. 1000 watt Peavey Mixer Amp (rack mount).. Peavey 24 channel Studio Mixer (rackmount).. several crest power amps (that comfortably go down to 2 ohms).. yamaha active enclosures (1-15+horn --- from the 80s -- helps with scaleability).. several Peavey SP2s.. Several 3 way Peaveys (from the same heavy era).. I built the rack.... monitors are a mixed bag of "blown" ones.. a local speaker shop pulls aside scorpions and widows for me.. I made all of the neutric ended cables (12 guage wire).. mikes are commonly used Peavey high end.... RTA is a TOA from the 90s...

An old timer at a sound company also suggested 80s SS guitar amps are good reference monitors (not hi fi) but dependable and under $50 each.. I haven't tried this yet.

Like noted.. I know the Peavey USA stuff enough that when Craigslist notifies me of new stuff in the area.. I can paypal before they get a chance to post pix - taking a risk of paying before I see it really helps. (Yes have bought some turds.. and plenty of condenser mikes that go for bigger cash on ebay.)

Overall.. looking for the heavy and bulky stuff will save you a ton of dough.. I sent an email to about 50 local church music directors offering cash for spare PA parts... a guy with cash and ready to jump can normally buy an entire band setup for dimes on the buck.

PA gear plummets in value VERY fast.. espeically if you're willing to go one era older.

Tim
 
#23
If it helps you...

PM me.. I can pull your specs to a sound engineering company. I was recently quoted $1350 for a new replacment power amp mixer to do the same type of setup as you describe.

I don't ask sales reps to do exact quotes.. just ballpark budgets.

Who knows - they may have tons of junk being pulled from an install.

Tim
 
#24
MNAirHead said:
I'll have to do an inventory.. like noted.. I scour the local classifieds and buy this stuff like a nervous habbit.

We do not play heavy metal or punk stuff.. vocal based pop.. acoustic adult contemporary.. smooth jazz and church pop.

It took me about 2 years to get the intial setup... is not one that most folks would say is cool... my focus is the sum of the parts --- not finding the best in for individuals.. geeze you can buy an alesis 31 band stereo EQ all day for $25 - not the best.. will get you started.. you can always donate it when done.

Reason I did all the piecing together is it's common for my theme band to be booked for a wedding dinner acoustic set on Saturday.. then a car show on Sunday... we have to right size the gear to the room.

Off the top of my head.. 1000 watt Peavey Mixer Amp (rack mount).. Peavey 24 channel Studio Mixer (rackmount).. several crest power amps (that comfortably go down to 2 ohms).. yamaha active enclosures (1-15+horn --- from the 80s -- helps with scaleability).. several Peavey SP2s.. Several 3 way Peaveys (from the same heavy era).. I built the rack.... monitors are a mixed bag of "blown" ones.. a local speaker shop pulls aside scorpions and widows for me.. I made all of the neutric ended cables (12 guage wire).. mikes are commonly used Peavey high end.... RTA is a TOA from the 90s...

An old timer at a sound company also suggested 80s SS guitar amps are good reference monitors (not hi fi) but dependable and under $50 each.. I haven't tried this yet.

Like noted.. I know the Peavey USA stuff enough that when Craigslist notifies me of new stuff in the area.. I can paypal before they get a chance to post pix - taking a risk of paying before I see it really helps. (Yes have bought some turds.. and plenty of condenser mikes that go for bigger cash on ebay.)

Overall.. looking for the heavy and bulky stuff will save you a ton of dough.. I sent an email to about 50 local church music directors offering cash for spare PA parts... a guy with cash and ready to jump can normally buy an entire band setup for dimes on the buck.

PA gear plummets in value VERY fast.. espeically if you're willing to go one era older.

Tim
Click to expand...

Well living in the "land of 10,000 lakes" you have plenty of inventory if you ever decide to open a boat anchor store.:D None of the gear you listed is even close to the best stuff of an older era. And believe me I know cause I used alot of it when it was new.
 
#26
If you find anything on Minneapolis CL..

I"m more than willing to pickup and store for you.

Singer in my band just picked up a Soundcraft board, mikes, stands and power amp for $250 --- all in great shape.. just a package deal.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/


========

IF you guys are ready...

I can call a guitarist we used to have.. he bought a pair of impulse 15s and 1000w powered mixeramp (with effects and basic eq) on stands... he has less than $800 in the setup.. this would get you close to Jimmy's suggestion
 
#27
If u have a friend who has knowledge, surf craigs list, read reviews and talk to ur friend. As for the vocal processor, im not sure what you have in mind but boss has a ve20 and digitechs got one too. Heard good things about the ve20.
 
#28
Right now on the Minneapolis Craigslist..

There are 2 separate ads for SP speakers.. (4 total) and 2 PV1600s.. for a fast buy the entire works (after buying a mixer and eq) would cost less than $2k.. probably 2x the PA you'd need for your suggested venue.

======
PA Speakers - Peavey SP5G pair - $300
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


Peavey SP 2G PA Speakers - $500 (Oakdale)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

1000 watts(x2) Peavey Power Amp - $350 (Minneapolis)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Peavey TLS 4X double 15" cabinets - $350 (S Mpls)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

PEAVEY SRC 1600 Mixing Board - $150 (St Paul Park, MN)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Peavey XR1212 powered mixer 12 Ch. rackable - $600 (Elk River, MN)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

IF You're strong
Peavey CS-800 - $140 (Minneapolis)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

These work as floor or side wash monitors
Peavey Quadra 10s (pair) - $250 (Chaska )
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


2 PEAVEY PV 2600 POWER AMPS - $700 (rochester)
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Manuals are all listed here.
Invalid Link Removed

======
The following setup would gain your noise level complaints and are proven workhorses every weekend accross the country.
PA Speakers - Peavey SP5G pair - $300
Peavey SP 2G PA Speakers - $500 (Oakdale)
Peavey XR1212 powered mixer 12 Ch. rackable - $600 (Elk River, MN)

OR

Peavey TLS 4X double 15" cabinets - $350 (S Mpls)
Peavey XR1212 powered mixer 12 Ch. rackable - $600 (Elk River, MN)

You'd still be getting noise complaints

I didn't spend a ton of time on this -- only the gear I know by model number.

Tim
 
#29
I would say you got a list of good equip there except I would go with this
drum mic kit at same price.
Invalid Link Removed

someone said something about going with amps instead of powered spkrs.
You save money on speaker cost and turn around and spend what your saved
on Amps, cases for them, and speaker cables and its more gear to haul and set up and less complicated staying with powered speakers.

The DBX drive rack is a good idea as it is a compressor, limiter, Eq, Para EQ, crossover,
and feed back eliminator. I use one and am glad I have the feedback elim.

might want a few eq's for inline with monitor sends, number would depend on how many separate mon mixes you need.
 
#30
as posted above they could save a grand if they could deal with a few less mic channels or only 4 monitor sends. the yamaha mixer mentioned seems like a good bet, or something like the mackie onyx 24.4. mics like 57's and 58's are usually ok to buy used if they will have it. they go for around half of the new price and last forever, so there is another 400 or so in savings. just clean them really well. =). the countryman di's are often found cheap used also. amps, mixer, and speakers i'd consider buying new due to warranty issues. buy bulk cable and make the mic/speaker cables yourself. that's my 2 cents, but if the board wont go for anything used i'm not sure how you could save anywhere else.
 
#31
Ok, so here's where everything's at so far:

It looks like we aren't getting all the mics, cables, stands, etc right away since we already have most of that stuff. We're looking into the Yamaha board, as well as a Drive Rack, and maybe another Drive Rack for monitor EQing. But since we don't have to spend all the extra cash on stuff we have already, we'll hopefully be able to make budget!

I looked at some more powered speakers as well, and would like some thoughts since we might have a little more budget to work with.

Originally we were thinking these:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/QSC-HPR153i-15-3Way-Powered-Loudspeaker-?sku=600028

But then I was thinking that these might be better since they appear to have a bit more power:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-HD1531-15-3Way-1800W-Powered-Loudspeaker?sku=620011

Or going with the tops/subs route:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/QSC-K10-10-Powered-PA-Speaker?sku=581517

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/QSC-KSub-Powered-Subwoofer?sku=581519 - Not sure if we'd need two of those or not.

Also, thanks so much to everyone for all the insight! I really appreciate it!!
 
#32
If you go with powered speakers a driverack may not be needed. Most of the processing is already done inside the cab. I don't have any experience with the mackie you listed above but I have heard the QSCs. Another option would be these tops Invalid Link Removed and these subs Invalid Link Removed QSC is discontinueing this line and coming out with a lighter version. I own a pair of the HPR151 subs and they are great for the money. They also have an 18 inch version.
 
#33
I love the AH GL2400 mixer, I put a 40 channel into a performing arts high school theatre recently. That said, I use the 12 channel version of theYamaha w/built-in effects in my band so I'd definitely +1 on the Yammie for your setup.
For all your cables, snakes, cases, check here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'm finishing an install w/a pair of QSC HPR12's and HPR 15 subs, but if you might look at the new KW series coming out this summer. There is a 15" 3-way in that series that I believe will be less expensive than the HPR. You might also consider going with smaller tops (K10, K12, K15) and a single sub placed either upstage center or on the floor in front of the stage.
 
#35
First if this is going to be an install and or the rig will not be seeing tons of gigs go with an OSP snake you will drop about 300 right there. We use OSP snakes and they get used a lot and are fine. Next I would buy GLS mic cables they use neutrix ends and last for a long time, there is no reason to buy anything better because they all break. Also if you want to save money on mics the GLS 57 and 58 sound just as good as the shure but if you are working with pro acts they will require the shure. You could go cheaper on the the DI boxes I would go with whirlwind everyone uses them. I am not a fan of shure PG anything so you may want to spend a little more money there or go with another brand. I think the OSP drum mics are great for the money and sound way better than the shure PG and will run you about 200 less or you could get something better. Unless they asked for the shure beta 87a I would ditch it. Also you will want sub woofers. The QSCs are alright but you could go with about any powered sub and be alright if it were me I would buy folded horn. Now you just saved a bunch and I know what I am talking about I use all of this gear. Think about front of house processing comps gates send return snakes for them and so on. If you have any questions shoot me a email. Also the allen and heath eon and QSC is the way to go on that end but you will also need EQs for your monitors and mains. You could save lots of money with a cheaper board but allen and heath rocks.....
 
#37
Never_grew_up said:
I love the AH GL2400 mixer, I put a 40 channel into a performing arts high school theatre recently. That said, I use the 12 channel version of theYamaha w/built-in effects in my band so I'd definitely +1 on the Yammie for your setup.
For all your cables, snakes, cases, check here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'm finishing an install w/a pair of QSC HPR12's and HPR 15 subs, but if you might look at the new KW series coming out this summer. There is a 15" 3-way in that series that I believe will be less expensive than the HPR. You might also consider going with smaller tops (K10, K12, K15) and a single sub placed either upstage center or on the floor in front of the stage.
Click to expand...

That KW series looks interesting. Any word on pricing and ship dates on those?
 
#38
Peter: If I recall, you indicated you needed to do ocasional outdoor events plus various sized indoor events? I own a small live sound company in Stillwater OK. I provided for an outdoor "contemporary" praise and worship event this week on the OSU campus...1000-1200 attended. I had plenty of lows and more than adequate mids/highs. Here is a partial list of gear:

Two JBL MRX525 mains (2-15/horn) powered by two bridged QSC PLX1602.
Two JBL SRX728S subs (2-18) powered by two bridged QSC PLX3402.
Soundcraft LX7 24 channel mixer
DBX Driverack PA processor
Lexicon MX200 DSP (effects unit)
Two DBX 231EQ graphic EQ for four monitor mixes.
Four JBL JRX112M monitors powered by two QSC PLX2402 power amps.

That system used should sell for "around" $6500 with lots of other "goodies" included (snakes, racks, cables, mics, stands). I would casually note that my system requires at least three 20 Amp 120 volt AC circuits to power it properly...plus any additional current draw for the band or lighting or audio/visual projectors...People often talk about big PA systems but forget they require "proper care and feeding."

A couple of general observations...

A DBX Driverack for monitors is not the wisest purchase. The DRPA has several features included that are not advantageous for monitors...just a basic, good quality 31 band EQ for each monitor mix is all that is necessary besides an engineer/sound man with a good ear.

Countryman DIs are OUTSTANDING devices...and I duly note that you specified "active DI" but there are very good quality DIs on the market for less than half the price. I elected to purchase Whirlwind IMP2 passive DI since I have only had ONE client require an active DI in the past 3 years. Based on the number of possible instruments you MIGHT have at the same time: Acoustic guitar, violin, cello, keyboard, you would need more than three DI...stretch your funds and buy several good quality, passive DI and maybe buy one Countryman Active DI to get started.

Mic cables...unless you want a "rats nest" in the center of your stage (snake stage box with all the connections) I would urge you to buy several "longer" mic cables rather than all of them 20 ft length. OR, plan to buy a sub snake for the "back line" (drums and amps) to lessen the length that cables have to run. Even so, we bring all vocal mic cables across the front to the stage box so we find that 20 ft is not always enough. Have at least a couple of 35 ft and one 50 ft for when the pastor wants to "take a walk into the congregation". (Or get one wireless...)

I do sound for a lot of college age "Red Dirt" country rock bands out of Austin and south Texas at the local "adult beverage" venues. I can tell you that many of those groups use wireless IEMs AND they have "real amps" on stage. (Admittedly most use smaller amps than bands that do not use IEMs.)

Using IEMs lowers their stage volume by more than half. They don't have to "crank it" to get their sound from their amp...they can just crank the channel for their IEM...and they still get their tone that they are used to hearing.

An example...last week end, I had an Austin based band using IEMs and the guitarist used a Matchless 15 Watt 1-12 amp. It was turned towards the back wall of the stage. He had a large piece of foam between the amp's speaker and the wall to absorb sound. He had his own Sennheiser E906 draped over the amp in front of the speaker for the PA. Behind the "open back" he had another large piece of foam and he had the "top" to the road case blocking the back wash from the amp onto the stage. The meter said 105 dB at the FOH mix location, and yet it was quieter behind the mains (beside the stage) than it was in front.

Of course, the problem with IEMs is "sharing with others"...NO ONE wants somebody else's ear wax....

My STRONG advice is to find a local pro audio engineer who does NOT have connections with any retail business...and then hire him to help spec a system and to help find that system and train up a "crew" to operate it for your organization.

Here is a tidbit I learned talking to several people in pro audio sales in several retail shops in Wichita, Tulsa and OKC...they believe that churches and "organizations" have money because people will continue to support those activities even when the economy is bad...and most of those salesmen make their living partially based on commission. It is counter productive for them to give you a big discount...it is money out of their mouth.

By the way, if you write your specs for bids, be very specific about your "6 Aux Sends"...after all, do you want 4 Pre Fader Aux Sends (Monitor mixes) and 2 Post Fader Aux Sends (EFX) or did you want six Pre-Fader Aux Sends (6 Monitor mixes) plus some effects sends? It makes several dollars difference.
 
#39
If you need 4 monitor mixes and more auxes for effects the Yamaha mixers mentioned don't have 6 Auxes like the GL2400.

The Allen & Heath GL2400 have 6 Auxes (2 pre/2 pre or post selectable and 2 Post)
and can be configured differently by changing some internal jumpers to suit your needs.
I addition jumpers can be changed so auxes are Post Eq if need be also. And the build of the board is way more rugged than the Yamaha's as well as better audio fidelity.

I use a A&H and configured it so pre fader auxes are post insert and EQ so when the drummer is using in ear monitors he is hearing compressor and EQ of the kick.
Each channel can be configured differently so you could say configure the last 8 channels one way and the first 16 another way so you have some options. Oh and the matrix mixer on the GL series gives you alot more options also.

Yamaha not in the same league :bawl:

QSC K12's and Ksubs are out....
 
#40
Depending on what you need power-wise; check out the Bose L1 system. Easy to use, easy to set up and sounds incredible. Two towers should put you at about 6000-7000$ and each tower is good for a crowd of about 400-500. Leaves you plenty of budget to get cables and some Shure mics.

Our band has been using a single tower for just under a year now. It takes a while to get used to because it isn't used in the same way as a traditional P.A.. There's no monitors, a single tower fully covers 160º (adds say 180º, but that's a bit optimistic). They're supposed to be 8-9 feet "behind" you and they react to rooms differently from most P.A.s. Once you've used it and got it figured out, all other P.A.s sound like cardboard boxes. You have to try it to appreciate it. The little mixer it comes with is good and the FX on it are good enough quality to be of use (not always the case on some mixers). You got notch filters, EQs, compressors, reverb, gates, even pre-made files for specific instruments/mics like Shure, Sennheiser, acoustic guitars, basses, and so on...

Let me know if you want any more info on it. I'll help anyway I can.
 

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