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Double Bass Need Help with Realist Pickup.. Feedback with low volume...?

bassfacer22

bassfacer22

Sep 3, 2011
1,709
445
North America NorthEast area..
#1
Hey guys

This has been killing me for years.. I've had this happen a few times over some time...

- So I have a Eminence 5-string portable upright bass..

- It has currently the David Gauge Realist transducer (the copper plate you put between the bridge of the bass foot and bass body..

My PROBLEM :

When I change around the position of the pickup or try to reset the position back to normal where it should be, (because I travel and take it apart often) I have a feedback note of "D" on the 4th-string (E-string)

It only appears to be the note D that starts to feedback and it's usually on the low E-string.. It starts to just raise in volume until it feedsback with a loud D note ringing overtone..

I have had this on multiple basses and I think it's something to do with the pressure of the foot on the pickup..

How does one deal with this and when I try moving the pickup to different locations under the foot, it does appear to change the feedback but of course changes the overall tone/ tinny / thin can sound of the bass..

-So I need to place the pickup of under the foot of the bridge bass foot in such a way to get a thicker low full sound... but this appears to cause this D-note feedback..

I could post up pictures of my pickup and even record the feedback hum for you guys to hear..

How to fix this?


1. I know I can EQ it out.. but that also kills some tone and mid-range of the instrument.. so I'd prefer not to EQ it out.. unless that's the only resort..

2. I tried different pickups (the lifeline, the K&k bassmax) and those didn't feedback.. but I wasn't too happy with the muffled tone of those..

ideas?


Thanks,
 
#2
Are you saying this occurs only when you play the "D" on the E-string and not when you play the open "D"?
 
#3
It occurs when I just turn the amp on and turn the volume up (not too loud) and then If i just tap the bass, a D-note starts to feedback..


I then can mute/stop the strings with my hand and it will stop the feedback... it appears to be the low E-string and feeding back on the note "D"..

like that.

It appears to be a feedback of the note "D" ... I can start the feedback by also playing the D-note on the G-string... but it appears to be the 4th-string E-string that is feeding back...

make sense? I can do a recording and pictures
 
#4
Well, it must be a very high D if the feedback is on the E string and even then the D string is easier to resonate on the 2nd octave than the E.

But I wouldn't use a copper Realist on a removable neck bass, because it might fail quickly that way. A different pickup, even a different bridge foot pickup like the Shadow SH-965NFX, might help.
Maybe it is a resonance of the body or the tailpiece and you feel it mostly on the E because that's where the bridge moves up and down the most.
 
#5
It could be a lot of things. IMO I doubt it's the pickup. Maybe see if you can try a removable pickup (like Realist Lifeline?) and see if the problem persists.

Sometimes basses have a strong resonant frequency. My previous bass had a strong presence around middle C. in which case I think a good parametric EQ would be the best option.
 
#7
DoubleMIDI said:
Well, it must be a very high D if the feedback is on the E string and even then the D string is easier to resonate on the 2nd octave than the E.

But I wouldn't use a copper Realist on a removable neck bass, because it might fail quickly that way. A different pickup, even a different bridge foot pickup like the Shadow SH-965NFX, might help.
Maybe it is a resonance of the body or the tailpiece and you feel it mostly on the E because that's where the bridge moves up and down the most.
Click to expand...

You may be right, but I've had my copper Realist on my Eminence removable neck for more than 5 years without incident. I mostly use it as a travel bass so the it gets disassembled and reassembled several times a year. The bass came with that pickup. Certainly, one person's experience shouldn't be considered proof, but further evidence for consideration.
 
#8
Tom Lane said:
You may be right, but I've had my copper Realist on my Eminence removable neck for more than 5 years without incident.
Click to expand...

There have been a discussion a while ago that the copper Realists die after about five years due to the constant force applied to them by the bridge foot. This together with the fact that the bass was disassembled and reassembled several times a year might lead to the assumption that the pickup could have been damaged. And damaged doesn't neccessarily mean that it's totally dead, it could be a broken element inside that gives a strange response, probably only on a certain frequency, because it resonates there.
You might want to read through the Eminence megathread, since as I remember there have been discussed other pickups that have been used after the factory provided Realist died.
 
#10
brianrost said:
After years of struggling with that problem, I totally got rid of feedback by dampening the after length, dampening the tailpiece and using a high pass filter.
Click to expand...
bassfacer22 said:
Hey guys

This has been killing me for years.. I've had this happen a few times over some time...

- So I have a Eminence 5-string portable upright bass..

- It has currently the David Gauge Realist transducer (the copper plate you put between the bridge of the bass foot and bass body..

My PROBLEM :

When I change around the position of the pickup or try to reset the position back to normal where it should be, (because I travel and take it apart often) I have a feedback note of "D" on the 4th-string (E-string)

It only appears to be the note D that starts to feedback and it's usually on the low E-string.. It starts to just raise in volume until it feedsback with a loud D note ringing overtone..

I have had this on multiple basses and I think it's something to do with the pressure of the foot on the pickup..

How does one deal with this and when I try moving the pickup to different locations under the foot, it does appear to change the feedback but of course changes the overall tone/ tinny / thin can sound of the bass..

-So I need to place the pickup of under the foot of the bridge bass foot in such a way to get a thicker low full sound... but this appears to cause this D-note feedback..

I could post up pictures of my pickup and even record the feedback hum for you guys to hear..

How to fix this?


1. I know I can EQ it out.. but that also kills some tone and mid-range of the instrument.. so I'd prefer not to EQ it out.. unless that's the only resort..

2. I tried different pickups (the lifeline, the K&k bassmax) and those didn't feedback.. but I wasn't too happy with the muffled tone of those..

ideas?


Thanks,
Click to expand...
I had a similar problem. I dampened the tail piece and set my Fishman Pro-EQ on flat right in the Center and adjusted the Phase with to accommodate the room. Gets rid of all your low feedback etc....
 
#12
I only have solid body EUBs, but on all of them I have damped the after lengths in the first place. Mainly because they don't have a tailpiece but just a fixed block of wood with holes, so the after length pitch is clearer than with a vibrating tailpiece.

A sponge pressing against body and strings will do it. Just have a look that the chemicals don't ruin the finish and exchange it every few years because the foam gets old and might later ruin the finish of the instrument.
 
#13
DoubleMIDI said:
There have been a discussion a while ago that the copper Realists die after about five years due to the constant force applied to them by the bridge foot. This together with the fact that the bass was disassembled and reassembled several times a year might lead to the assumption that the pickup could have been damaged. And damaged doesn't neccessarily mean that it's totally dead, it could be a broken element inside that gives a strange response, probably only on a certain frequency, because it resonates there.
You might want to read through the Eminence megathread, since as I remember there have been discussed other pickups that have been used after the factory provided Realist died.
Click to expand...

I remember that conversation and followed it at the time. I thought it was something to keep in the back of my mind, but that the discussion was mostly anecdotal and speculative. Do I remember it wrong? Was there conclusive evidence presented?
 
#15
DoubleMIDI said:
Be happy if your Realist still works fine after more than five years. This can indeed happen, but it doesn't need to. So if a problem arises with amplification after more than 5 years, one should at least consider a faulty Realist.
Click to expand...

That seems reasonable. If had an issue I would certainly consider swapping out my pickup as one of the first steps in diagnoses. Especially if nothing else changed that I was aware of.
 
#16
ok just read through this and

1. I just bought this bass and its a completely new realist pickup..

2. I have experienced this "D" note feedback on another removable neck 4-string bass.. (my current bass is a Removable neck 5-string)

I can make the feedback go away simply sometimes by changing the position of the realist under the foot.. Sometimes I put it far the right.. and then far to the left.. (maybe A picture will help..)

3. I don't like EQ-ing it out because I can feel and hear the sound loss in the midrange/low range when I EQ it out..

4. I also have a Realist Lifeline that I tried and still can use but I went back to the regular Realist because the LIfeline sounded muffled in the mid-high range (playing on the G-string around C up to the G harmonic)


I really want to try the Shadow pickup.. I may do that when I get a chance to buy it.. I'm traveling now so it's difficult..

I'll post up pictures and sounds in a few days.. I'm on the way to Norway right now so It may be difficult for me to get back online for a day or two..
 
#17
Oh and I do take off the bridge way too often.. so I probably will break the pickup at some point.. ha.

and also I have muted by a sponge and cloth some of the after string lengh... but i have NOT muted the tailpiece..


I think the most important thing for me right now is the position of the pickup either far left or right under the foot and I'm trying now somehow to figure out to make sure the pressure is even under the bass foot for the realist.. I know that makes a HUGE difference just even when I press down on the bridge with my thumb between the A and D strings and push down the bridge tilting it towards the floor.. That changes the sound so drastically..

which brings me to why I am not so happy with the realist pickup design.. any slight movement with these smaller type (electric upright bridges) make such huge drastic changes in the sound.. so when I tune up and it pulls the bridge up a little the sound has already changed because of the slight tilt now of the bridge on the pickup..

thats why I like the idea of the Lifeline or the Realist soundclip.. but then when I've tried those, they are too muffled sounding.. ha..

figures right? so i'm back to the regular realist with this going on now.

Anyway I'll have to put up sound clips and pictures when I'm in Norway with internet..
 
#18
You might have a Realist with a disk inside the copper foil. That might indent the top and by moving it the contact with bridge and top is totally different. Specially if you already have an indent in the top. That's one of the reasons (beyond the sound that I do not like personally) why I don't think a Realist is a good idea for a removable neck instrument.

You might want to consider a Wilson K1 in the bridge foot or a German BassBalsereit (both need a special hole in the as side bridge foot, only works without adjusters) or a Full Circle or Lifeline (the second sounds a bit dark off me too, the first needs tweaking with the rotation angle for optimum sound which not optimum volume).
But the Shadow NFX is closest to the transducing point as the Realist, more robust (except you might to pad the inside of the battery adapter against rattling) and needs no change to the bridge. And it might work even better with one foil only, so you have as spare one in case of damage. Might even be cheaper in Europe. If you order from Thomann in Germany by internet you can get it delivered to Norway, I think.
 

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