NEED HELP WITH TUBES

[scotch]

Hmmm,.. JJ's. They get so much love here in TB that I'm always apprehensive to disparage them. I've bought a few myself & they worked fine, but I have seen a lot of guitarists put them in their amps, LOVE them at first & then swap them out mid-tour. I think they are pretty middle-of-the-road (which, of course, can be just fine!).

 

[JimmyM]

Hmmm,.. JJ's. They get so much love here in TB that I'm always apprehensive to disparage them. I've bought a few myself & they worked fine, but I have seen a lot of guitarists put them in their amps, LOVE them at first & then swap them out mid-tour. I think they are pretty middle-of-the-road (which, of course, can be just fine!).

jj's are the lesser of two evils and i think that's why they get love. put them up against even a basic rca silverplate or ge and the nos tubes will eat them for lunch in the reliability dept. jj makes a 12dw7 and i tried a couple in my svt in the eq section, and they lasted a year. when i changed them, i compared their looks to the nos 12dw7's i have, and jj's look like they were thrown together in a hurry with cheap crap components, and the pins would actually vibrate like a tuning fork if you tapped them on something. maybe that's why they're $9

 

[scotch]

jj's are the lesser of two evils and i think that's why they get love. put them up against even a basic rca silverplate or ge and the nos tubes will eat them for lunch in the reliability dept. jj makes a 12dw7 and i tried a couple in my svt in the eq section, and they lasted a year. when i changed them, i compared their looks to the nos 12dw7's i have, and jj's look like they were thrown together in a hurry with cheap crap components, and the pins would actually vibrate like a tuning fork if you tapped them on something. maybe that's why they're $9

Were totally gonna get inter-wupped by the JJ fanboy brigade!

 

[Coolhandjjl]

How does anything " expire " in a vacuum? I think it would take more than a couple of decades to have a tubes components expire like you say.

i have amps full of nos tubes, and not a single one of them deteriorate from anything except usage, and even then it usually takes a very long time...i'm talking decades. my 73 super reverb still has the power tubes it came with and gets used regularly and the tubes still test as dead nuts matched and strong.

i'd be looking elsewhere for tube advice from now on. whoever told you that obviously has an agenda.

Nonsense. There are plenty of NOS Telefunkens, Westinghouse, & RCA tubes available for purchase. The don't deteriorate when not in use as long as the vacuum remains intact. J/J tubes are made in Cadca, Slovakia, not Prague.

Boy, I feel like an arse. Thanks for pointing all that out. I'm a beginner and have lots to learn.

 

[coreyfyfe]

Were totally gonna get inter-wupped by the JJ fanboy brigade!

Where's my big stick.....

Seriously though, I've had good luck with JJs. They certainly aren't going to sound the same as a NOS tube, but they're pretty good for new production. I picked up a NOS 12DW7 for V1 of my SVT and first one that came in was DOA. Dead. Killed the sound in every position. I contacted the resller and he said it was tested prior to shipment but I was welcome to ship it back for retesting and he would get back to me. Never heard back but I got a fresh sparkly NOS Westinghouse in the mail a few days later. So I guess cavet emptor is what I'm saying when it comes to NOS tubes. Make sure you're buying from a reputable seller that will back their product.

 

[Hellbastard]

I never had a problem with JJ 12ax7 I had in my Fender bassman. Right now I'm using TAD premium 12ax7 tubes in my traynor YBA 200 II, they sound a lot better and are pretty reliable, but I don't know where you can get them in the US.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I never had a problem with JJ 12ax7 I had in my Fender bassman. Right now I'm using TAD premium 12ax7 tubes in my traynor YBA 200 II, they sound a lot better and are pretty reliable, but I don't know where you can get them in the US.

You can get TAD preamp tubes from most of the online vendors. www.thetubestore.com sells them as do a few others, but their preamp tubes are just tested chinese production. They have special design power tubes which are made and tested to proprietary specs (labeled STR) but as far as I know their preamp tubes are just standard chinese production that have been tested and burned in prior to sale - same as you'd get from groove tubes, ruby, etc.

 

[Staccato]

It really depends on the tone you're looking for...

For current production tubes, I like JJs, Tung-Sol, and Sovtek 12AX7LPS, but which one I choose depends on the amp and tube position.

All things being equal, I find the LPS the smoothest, the Tung-Sol has the growly mids, and the JJ is bright with low microphonics.

+1

Depends on the tone you're seeking, and which valve position it's going to be located. When you're ready to buy, contact Doug by phone at Dougstubes.com.

His suggestion for my amp/sought after tone was:
V1: Tung Sol RI, V2: Penta 7025, V3: Chinese 12AT7, V4: Sovtek LP, Power Section (2) 6L6GC – either Tung Sol STR, or Ruby STR.

 

[Hellbastard]

You can get TAD preamp tubes from most of the online vendors. www.thetubestore.com ... but their preamp tubes are just tested chinese production...

So what? I don't see what's the problem with that, a tube doesn't know where it was manufactured, what counts is that the quality control and tests give the consistency and reliability that the user needs.

 

[JimmyM]

Boy, I feel like an arse. Thanks for pointing all that out. I'm a beginner and have lots to learn.

no problem, dude. we all get misinformation from people with agendas when we start out. but at least you have a place like this to go to get the straight story. when i started, we had nothing except guitar player magazine, and they certainly weren't going to piss off the tube sellers who advertised and wrote tech articles for them.

 

[coreyfyfe]

So what? I don't see what's the problem with that, a tube doesn't know where it was manufactured, what counts is that the quality control and tests give the consistency and reliability that the user needs.

Not an issue with production location but if all they're doing is burning in a tube and reselling it for a premium price it's not worth it IMO. That's the same thing as buying GT or Ruby, they're all manufactured in the same place, relabeled, and sold at a premium. If the tube is good it's good, but don't pretend it's better than any other just because it's got a specific label.

 

[Hellbastard]

I don't know their procedure but I do know that they test their tubes and offer a really good warranty to their product. If I remember correctly TAD have their tubes built to specification.

I'm not pretending it's better. Better is a subjective term and to me those tubes sound better than the other ones I've tried.

 

[coreyfyfe]

As far as I can find, they have power tubes built to spec (those are labeled STR) but the pre-amp tubes (which is what's in question here) are only tested and burned in. If that's all their doing, I'd say you can probably save the few bucks and get tubes elsewhere. Or spend the money and go NOS.

 

[Hellbastard]

Well, I'm germany and the price for the TADs I own is pretty much in the same range as JJ, EH and other tubes. I like the tone I'm getting from TAD premium tubes, very nice warm break up. NOS to me is BS, people like to convince themselves they're getting better tubes becuase in the "old days" they were made better in the "oleUSA", but you can't possible say that with the advanced production techniques and knowledge we have nowadays, a product from 40, 50 years ago was better.
It's the same thing that leads people to believe that vintage fender basses are better that anything produced nowadays

 

[CDweller]

Well, I'm germany and the price for the TADs I own is pretty much in the same range as JJ, EH and other tubes. I like the tone I'm getting from TAD premium tubes, very nice warm break up. NOS to me is BS, people like to convince themselves they're getting better tubes becuase in the "old days" they were made better in the "oleUSA", but you can't possible say that with the advanced production techniques and knowledge we have nowadays, a product from 40, 50 years ago was better.
It's the same thing that leads people to believe that vintage fender basses are better that anything produced nowadays

Nos does not refer to tubes made only in the "oleUSA", although there are fantastic NOS tubes from the USA. I just purchased some nos Mullard (G.B.), and Siemens (und Ich liebe Deutschland, mien fruend) tubes. As to perceptions of quality, well, that's what they are- perceptions. If you're getting what you need from the new stuff, that's good.

 

[Hellbastard]

I'm not trying to bash the made in the USA thing. A lot of great products made in the USA are great. What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people think that just because a product is manufactured in china, or it's a new production model, it shoud be disregarded as if it wasn't as good as what was manufactured in the "old days" or in the USA.

I'm not German by the way, so I'm not trying to say that just because TAD tubes are from German company they are better than any other brand. I was just addressing the point coreyfyfe made, saying that TAD tubes are just Chinese made tubes, as if that was a bad thing.

 

[CDweller]

gotcha- it's too easy to judge the quality of a product based on its country of origin, when no such distinction is necessarily true.

I might have made a mistake with my Mesa 400+, as numerous posters have claimed that it's designed for the newer tubes, and doesn't particularly sound good with the old stuff. We shall see!

I might add that in my mind, the thought that TAD tubes are a product of Germany or German engineering makes me think that they're high quality- a common perception of German products.

 

[coreyfyfe]

I'm not German by the way, so I'm not trying to say that just because TAD tubes are from German company they are better than any other brand. I was just addressing the point coreyfyfe made, saying that TAD tubes are just Chinese made tubes, as if that was a bad thing.

I wasn't saying it was bad they were chinese, I was saying that they sell for a premium because they're burned in and tested and aren't necessarily better quality. They may discard the bad tubes, but if you are buying from a reputable seller that tests tubes before resale or will guarantee a tube that fails within 30 days as most do, then you can save some scratch by going (closer) to the source when looking for pre-amp tubes.

In terms of NOS, if you can't discern the difference it could be a factor of the circuit you are using or you just aren't noticing a difference between the tubes you've tested. Some make a big difference, some don't. Personally I never put much stock in NOS tubes until I swapped a few around in my V4. There was an arrangement that sounded best to my ears in that amp that included both "vintage" and modern tubes. Furthermore, in my SVT with a NOS 12DW7 vs a JJ 12DW7 in V1 there is a discernible difference.

 

[Hellbastard]

to my ears in that amp that included both "vintage" and modern tubes.

And here's where the answer lies. It sounds best to your ears, so nobody can say one or another is better to you. one could run test and try to evaluate the attributes of each tube, but what matters is what sounds better to you, not if a tube is made in china, old or anything else

 

[JimmyM]

And here's where the answer lies. It sounds best to your ears, so nobody can say one or another is better to you. one could run test and try to evaluate the attributes of each tube, but what matters is what sounds better to you, not if a tube is made in china, old or anything else

right. and that's why i prefer nos. all tubes sound basically the same to me and i can tell very little difference between one or the other, so you'd think i would be happy with the cheaper chinese and russian tubes. but i'm not nearly as happy with them as i am with nos's. you can just look at old tubes and tell they're better quality. some newer gear does work better with new tubes, i will give you that. but i really don't trust new tubes like i do old ones, and a fairly large amount of failed tubes in proportion to working tubes is why.

and it isn't a usa thing...mullards were from england and telefunkens were from germany. they're the two most expensive and loved nos tube brands you can find.