I had that experience also. If uncertain send Demeter an email, he’ll send you a diagram
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Need more volume from Demeter/Bergantino NV combo
- Thread starter Joshua Vance
- Start date
I liked the original Demeter Pre amps so I thought his amp would be similar. I found the amp had no headroom. I tried it with one 15 and it seemed weak I hooked it up to 2-15's and it was an improvement but still lacking volume wise. It was less than my 62 Bassman at 50 watts. Maybe the trimpot is the ticket.
There's not a lot of great info on the trim pot. I stumbled upon it by accident. It helped, but I ultimately sold my 400 because it was too clean and the DI couldn't compete with the Aggie I had at the time.
The HPF suggestions are, I think, good ones. Boominess and mud can come from different sources and in different frequency ranges, so I don't know how much cutting the extreme lows will help in your situation, but I think that it's likely to help some (maybe a lot) and will give you some more headroom with your amp and cab (and help protect them when you're using the octave pedal).
You might try setting the cab on a Gramma pad or similar, if there is an issue with mechanical coupling, and/or elevating it or angling it up slightly as @Wasnex suggested.
I am not expert on acoustic treatment, but it might be that treating your room would help significantly. If you do, I would do some research to figure out what to target first and how to get the most bang for your buck.
Finally, the "massive wall of Leslies and tube combos" your keys player is using -- particularly if he's cranking the volume in a space not suited to that or using lots of bass -- could be an issue. It might be that some of them would benefit from elevation or an HPF, as well.
I haven't owned your amp, but I did have an HBP-1 800D for awhile (which, actually, you might like -- more control than the 201, too) and the VTBP-201 (non "S" version), upon which your amp is based. I rarely cut (and often boosted) the mids on that as, to my ear, its native character is a bit scooped, but I'm not there, hearing your bass, so can't say that what you're doing is wrong, only that it's counterintuitive to me.
Thanks for mentioning this -- I'd never heard of it, so I took a look: Quickstart - Electra 500
I've not listened to the demo, yet, but it looks and sounds intriguing (there is a two channel rack version, also, which costs more).https://thehouseofkush.com/pages/quickstart-electra-500
I'd love to hear one in a bass rig. As far as dealing with problem frequencies, the semi-parametric mid bands and HPF could help -- the HPF is listed as 12 dB/octave (I believe the Broughton HPFs are, too), which will help, though something like the FDeck HPF3 (which is 24 dB/octave, fixed, below 35 Hz, 12 dB/octave, adjustable, above that) should have a more pronounced effect. There is also the SFX Micro-Thumpinator, which has a very steep rolloff below 25 Hz (I think), non-adjustable. I've had the fDeck for awhile and used it live and just picked up the Micro-Thumpinator -- only messed about with the latter a bit at home, so far, but it does clean things up noticeably. I've not tried the Broughton stuff, yet.
A notch filter could also be helpful if you find that a specific note or frequency booms out above the others -- the Empress Para-EQ has an option for that (though they were out of production, last I checked), though I'm sure it's not the only option.
EDIT: Setting the internal trim pot on my Demeter pre helped it to feel more lively and dynamic with my bass. Unless it's set so low that you can't drive it to max volume with your bass, though (it might be), it won't actually increase the maximum available volume from the amp.
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VTBP-M-800D
You got that turned around and also the VTBPP (tube pre ) is 400W @ 8 ohms and 800 @ 4 ohms . It's the 800-D that is 500W @ 8 ohms and 800W @ 4 ohms.
Bass 800D 800 Watt Bass Amplifier
Thanks. Guess I did turn it around and have the wrong model 
. However the NV212 should only be fed 400W, and I got that part right
.
As others have said, you have a great rig, and a bad room. Push the low mids (not just the mids), and pull back the bass or add an HPF to your rig.
I have owned both but not at the same time. I would first try elevating the cab off the floor with no adjustments on the amp and see if that helps. If it doesn't I would try a combination of elevating and pushing the mids and cutting the bass some at 60 or 120, whatever yields the best results. Don't be afraid to dime the mids on that amp as it still stays very musical IMO.
Running with scooped mids is definitely going to reduce your perceived volume. You might try going the other way on that.
If you absolutely must be scooped then you likely need more speaker (ideally another NV212) but your current setup should be capable of getting pretty darn loud.
Your cranked with the band tone may differ greatly from your ideal tone when playing alone. Out front when the band is playing can sound perfect but solo'd can be not your choice.
I agree one capable cabinet can roar where two identical ones can actually be underwhelming.
At practice with the band, set eq flat. Get your pre and master volumes properly set. See if you can get it to the volume you like even if it's not your tone. Is it loud enough? Then decrease highs for more lows and decrease lows for more highs. All this will help you when you get to that horrible room on a gig.
Can the whole band play with extreme vigor at just above conversation level? Any genre or music. That way you all can raise your spls to the point that you begin to lose clarity and definition then back off. This is a necessary skill because you must bring the show even if the room is bad or patrons want it quieter.
A hostess kept seating the people who came for the music in the back and the people who wanted to talk right up to the band. Yeah, Crazy. One table saw our cases and said, "they're going to be loud." I went to each table and told them not to worry we wouldn't be. We blazed hard! But not loud. They thanked us afterward.
I agree one capable cabinet can roar where two identical ones can actually be underwhelming.
At practice with the band, set eq flat. Get your pre and master volumes properly set. See if you can get it to the volume you like even if it's not your tone. Is it loud enough? Then decrease highs for more lows and decrease lows for more highs. All this will help you when you get to that horrible room on a gig.
Can the whole band play with extreme vigor at just above conversation level? Any genre or music. That way you all can raise your spls to the point that you begin to lose clarity and definition then back off. This is a necessary skill because you must bring the show even if the room is bad or patrons want it quieter.
A hostess kept seating the people who came for the music in the back and the people who wanted to talk right up to the band. Yeah, Crazy. One table saw our cases and said, "they're going to be loud." I went to each table and told them not to worry we wouldn't be. We blazed hard! But not loud. They thanked us afterward.
Joshua,
I hope you wear earplugs. I've played that Demeter head with a single Berg 1-12 a bunch of times and with two it should be knocking down walls.
Turning down the mids only reduces the volume and if it's boomy you should be looking at the bass EQ, not the mids.
Good luck
I hope you wear earplugs. I've played that Demeter head with a single Berg 1-12 a bunch of times and with two it should be knocking down walls.
Turning down the mids only reduces the volume and if it's boomy you should be looking at the bass EQ, not the mids.
Good luck
I don't have personal experience with either Bergantino NV cabs or Demeter VTBP800 amp….so my ability to help you is limited.
These are my general thoughts based on my experience with other gear (incl. Bergantino AE and CN cabs):
Good luck!
These are my general thoughts based on my experience with other gear (incl. Bergantino AE and CN cabs):
- in case of boomy rooms, I cut bass and boost mids
- in case of boomy rooms, I disconnect the second speaker cabinet (the one sitting on the floor), I try to aim the connected speaker at my ears (in order to increase the level of direct sound, and lower the level of reflections)
- HPF is invaluable when dealing with boomy rooms
- HPF is able to increase the perceived loudness of a rig
Good luck!
You guys rock! Emailed James Demeter about the trim pot schematic, going to spend all day at work reading about HPFs.
A massive wall of Leslies and Tube Combos sounds like a volume arms race. I would just put my earplugs in and be happy with what is there. Stuff is too loud.
Here's more than hundred pages of reading...
High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
Probably.
He’s loud and proud. The sound is lovely however. Gotta convince him to let me sound proof his toy shed
I second Broughton. I have an always on HPF that's microscopic.
I would like to know about the trimpot because I have a negative view of class D power when compared to my tube heads and my GK 800RB. I would find comfort in my view being wrong. I also have an Fdeck HPF that I use sometimes with my Upright bass and sometimes with my electrics.I agree with all those who mention boosting the mid's, the scooped mid tone gets buried in a mix with electric guitars.
Has anyone had an issue not getting an email back from Mr. Demeter? I sent a couple questions his way before I bought the amp months ago, still have not received a response after again reaching out the other day.
