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Need suggestions to complete my PA

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by HiltonHeadEd, May 21, 2011.


  1. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    Here is what Im running now

    (2) Mackie SRM450
    (1) Mackie 1801 Sub
    (1) Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro

    Need Suggestions For:
    (4) Powered stage monitors (can I get by w/ the TH12 from Mackie? Big difference in money to get 4 SRM450 other alternative)
    (4) DI boxes - (industry standard?)
    (2) Overhead kit mics (???)
    (1) Kick mic (???)
    (1) Snare mic (???)
    (1) Snake (???)

    Need Rack Gear Suggestions:

    Compressor
    VOX EFX
    Crossover (i want to run my sub from an aux)
    Power Conditioner (furman, I presume)
    Rack case to hold it all including the 1604 VLZ Pro on a slanted top)

    I have been looking and looking and am just confused now. I need equipment that is COMPARABLE IN QUALITY and COST to what I already have. (no comments from the peanut gallery on the quality that I have to begin with please :cool: )

    I want to be able to offer a PA to any group that plays small clubs. Thanks I hope you guys get where Im coming from.
     
  2. Monitors can get personal so you need to take your needs into consideration. As for drum mics I can help you there, I use an old vocal mic that has lost its bottom end for a one shot overhead. Your gonna eliminate bottom for your toms and cymbals anyway a good start is to bump up 400/440 so my broken mic works perfect. Ofcourse you need to find a happy medium between vocals and drums on your graphic unless you add in a seperate 31 graphic for drums and use your inserts. You still get a bleed from the number 1 graphic but it always helped me to run the kick through the compressor and use that for my gain, better control and safer set up. The snare is the easiest a Shure 57 is still the standard as for the kick I've used the akg D112 since its inception the only other option for me is a Sen 421. The shure stuff sells very well but if you want low down bottom the old egg burys them every time we compare them.'Sounds like you got the answers for the rest of the gear.
    I personally prefer passive cabs for the P/A if theres a problem the fix is alot easier than being dead in the water with active gear but I'm sure the reliability has improved greatly today. I would add a second sub but lots of smaller rooms can be covered easilt with one.
     
  3. prd004

    prd004

    Dec 3, 2010
    OK here's some suggestions:

    DI: Countryman Type 85 is the industry standard, Radials are excellent too

    Snare Mic: SM57. Tried and true a milion times over

    Vocal Effects: Love me some Lexicon!

    Monitors: DON'T SKIMP ON MONITORS!!! Monitors are THE essential piece of gear. When you can't hear yourself you play poorly. Yet think of all the GREAT gigs you've ever played, you could hear yourselves. It's better to get good monitors and skimp elsewhere than to to get good outboard gear and skimp on monitors.

    Kick Mic: I have had great sucess with mt Sennheiser E602

    OVerhead mics: If you use small condenser mics, get ones with a pad. I used a pair of Rode NT5's and they were just too frickin hot. Still looking for a decent pair for live, I use Neuman KM184's studio and they KILL, but too expensive for the road.

    I forgot the rest of the questions!! Good luck
     
  4. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    I don't want to skimp on monitors either, was hoping the thumps 12" would be ok. I can get 4 of them for $951 total. Where as (4) SRM450s would be $1716 total.

    Im good with the mics, DI, and VOX EFX. Thanks for the tips.

    :help:PLEASE HELP HERE:help:
    So far as Compressors, EQ's, and Crossovers go, I am completely lost on what I am looking for.

    Also one vertical rack to hold the this stuff with a slanted top for the board.

    AND TY TY TY TY TY!!!!! For the help so far.
     
  5. DI: BSS AR133

    For drums get a shure DMK 57-52 set and a pair of condenser mics. I find the sound of the rode M3 very pleasing for overheads.
    AKG D112 or Audix D6 are other good choices for the Kick mic.

    A stagebox is really dependant on how many channels, sends and returns you need. I like cordial products, but I don't know if they are easily available outside of Germany.

    You can use 4 mackie TH12 for only vocals, but if you find yourslef running soud for band whose bass player doesn't use an amp, then you'll find that they aren't enough.

    Save your money and ditch the idea of buying a furman power conditioner.

    If you want to mic Drums you'll need a noise gate and compressors. The presonus ACP88 is a great option for that application. if money is tight then a pair of samson s-com 4 can do the trick.

    Try using the xover of the mackie sub first. Then, after you've bought the things you need for a good PA setup, worry about an external xover.

    Vocal FX, look a used TC electronic voiceworks or a digitech vocalist unit.
     
  6. uhdinator

    uhdinator

    Apr 20, 2010
    Maine
    Overheads. Sm81's or cheaper but good as well. Audix ADX51's
    Or Audix DP7 kit. (cheaper than buying everything separately)
    Dbx 166xl compressors
    Dbx Drive rack PX
     
  7. I like the dbx 166(166A/166XL) for cheap compressor/limiter/gates. There are a lot of them in the wild and they can be had for cheap.

    For EQ it depends on what you want it for. I've got Orban 622B parametrics I use on inserts and dbx 231 graphics I use across my monitor mixes. For the FOH I've gotten used to the EQ in my Driverack. Speaking of which:

    For the system you are running a dbx Driverack PX would work great for FOH EQ, crossover, and limiter. Probably already got a preset for the speakers you are using to get you started.
     
  8. TimmyP

    TimmyP

    Nov 4, 2003
    Indianapolis, IN
    The sub should have a low-pass built in, so no need for a crossover. I don't think 1 sub will cut it.

    450s overheat when used as monitors.

    DIs: Radial Pro series or Audiopile.net

    Overheads: Unless you are a very quiet band, you'll never need them.

    Kick: Heil PR40 or Audix D6 (I switched from the D^ to the PR40).

    Snare: Audix D series, Sennheiser 604 or 904 (you'll find that the floor tom is much more likely to need a mic than the snare - use a D4 for that).

    Snake: Audiopile.net

    Power conditioner: Just get a good rack strip: PROVANTAGE: Tripp Lite RS-0615-R Power Strip 6-Outlet Rackmount 15ft-Cord Switch Metal or PROVANTAGE: Tripp Lite RS-1215 Power Strip 12-Outlet Rackmount 15ft-Cord Switch Metal

    Comp: Remember that anything inserted on a channel will also affect that channel's signal to the monitors - not a good thing. dbx1066 or 166XL, Rane C4 if you want to get fancy.

    Rack: Audiopile.net
     
  9. A warning on the Mackie powered speakers used as floor monitors - laying then on their side to use as floor monitors can cause them to overheat and go into thermal shutdown, especially on a carpeted stage. I read about that on a another forum (maybe this one, I don't remember) and then saw it happen in person at a friend's gig. He panicked when the keyboardist's monitor went out. We turned it off, waited til the end of the song and set it on some blocks of 2x4 to get some air under it. Waited 1 more song before turning it back on then it was ok the rest of the night. None of the other other monitors failed the whole night.
     
  10. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    would highly recommend not using powered speaks for floor monitors. Then you don't deal with the heat issues or the extra cable clutter. Not too mention the reduced cost of 1 amp equalling 2 mon mixes, which for club bands is usually OK.

    AMS has Mackie C200's for $200 a pop. C300's at $400. A Drivecore/QSC GX/Carvin DCM in a small rack case or similar to power would be my suggestion. I have a set of the C200's and for the dough ... fantastic. Sound a little 'flat' - not in a good way, so they need a touch of EQ to get the juice going IMO. Still at $200 a pop, it's a great choice.
     
  11. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    Actually a really good point 4Mal thanks. Of course I just bought 3 more SRMv2's for a total of five now. I think I am getting a pair of JBLPRX635s to sit on top of the 1801's that I already have.
     
  12. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    Holy cow.... just saw all the other DONT USE SRMS for MONITORS. I am literally canceling my order now on the phone. HELP>>>>>>>> brb and I will give you all more specifics as my thoughts and ideas have changed a little. Wow, what a support team. Thank you dearly. I think you just saved me thousands with other things I am sure to learn as I read.
     
  13. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    OK done. Reset Button Hit. Here is the skinny.

    I have:
    (2) SRM450v2s
    (1) 1801 Sub
    (1) Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro

    I need:

    Floor Monitors for 5 guys. I want everyone with their own monitor. (am I right? which ones... powered/unpowered?)

    Drum Mics - don't care just the standard.

    DI for Keys and Bass (should I mic my bass too? super sweet eden setup WT550/D410XLT/and am adding 212xlt or 410xst) I want a really nice DI for Bass.

    Compression - set on ACP88

    VOX EFX - whats the standard?

    (2) Dual Band EQ's - Standard

    Rack Case with slanted top - Good enough

    Power Conditioner - standard

    Pair of Mains - JBLPRX635's???

    2nd Sub - another 1801???

    16 Channel Snake - standard
     
  14. modulusman

    modulusman Banned

    Jan 18, 2004
    montana
    I'm not sure but I think the newer mackies don't have the thermal problem. I used the older 450s for 5 years as monitors and mains and the only time I had them thermal on me was outside in the hot sun. This happened twice and both times it was a main mounted on a speaker pole NOT a monitor.
     
  15. modulusman

    modulusman Banned

    Jan 18, 2004
    montana
    Why would you need a DI for your bass? The one on your Eden head would work fine. I use a Lexicon MX200 for an effects unit. Good deal for the money. DBX makes good graphic EQs. My band uses the PRX535s over QSC subs. They are a good sounding speaker I would imagine the 635s are too. I have 4- PRX512ms that we use for monitor duty and They sound good and get loud. They are discontinued but you might find some used or maybe the 612ms if you can afford it.
     
  16. modulusman

    modulusman Banned

    Jan 18, 2004
    montana
    I bet the keyboard player was using as his keyboard monitor and had it cranked.
     
  17. Keithwah

    Keithwah

    Jan 7, 2011
    Milwaukee WI
    EV has just rolled out the new ELX line, and it does sound very good. Very inexpensive subs, self powered stuff is really nice.

    Otherwise, I hope some of you guys aren't sitting with your noses in your Musician Friend/Carvin/Sam Ash/Guitar Center catalogs thinking this is the only place to buy equipment. Sure they have some pretty pictures, and maybe some of you are using their pay now and pay even more later financing plans, but seriously check out the local Craigslists, and eBayers for used gear. There are some good deals to be had from all of the bands that break up, and the players that just can't get a project off the ground, etc. These guys spend crazy cash buying new stuff from the super-duper stores, then can't get rolling for whatever reason and wind up selling out cheaply. And tons of good old fashioned analog gear out there.

    Re-purpose and recycle good American, Japanese and European gear. It's usually built much better than the new stuff made in China or Korea (although the Koreans are better these days). It is all over the place and for nickels on the dollar.

    Become a contributing member and place an ad in the gear wanted section. Buyers and sellers and the horse traders on here comb those areas as well. I've gotten some great stuff on here and from good trustworthy dudes But choo gots to verify references and feedback! Here or on eBay.


    Oh yeah, you can't run five full monitor mixes off of a Mackie 1604VLZ Pro. It only allows you to get complete independent control of up to four mixes at one time via the aux's. You need a console with many more auxiliaries than that and to have some sends for effects. You might want to look for a something like a Presonus Live 24. That would give you all the stinking aux mixes plus effect sends. And you can store preset mixes for return engagements. Otherwise, for that many mixes, you could find some used Soundcraft and Allen Heath larger 32, 40, 48 channel analog boards guys are dumping for $2K or less with eight aux's. And most of them still sound like a million bucks, people just don't want to haul them because of the digital boards that are out.
     
  18. <450s overheat when used as monitors.>

    They sure do, try some QSC K10 or 12's. Great monitors and they do great as tops, better then the Mackie to me and I've owned your system before.
     
  19. HiltonHeadEd

    HiltonHeadEd

    Apr 25, 2011
    thanks folks.... should I get the same mackie 1801 to match the one I have? I will go with QSC K12s from now on.
     
  20. modulusman

    modulusman Banned

    Jan 18, 2004
    montana
    it wouldn't be my first choice but since you already have one it would probably be best to get another 1801.
     

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