• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Need to be heard!

#41
MCS4 said:
I'm pretty sure that when people say "do not cut the mids," they are not generally intending to say "do not make a moderate adjustment to one limited frequency range in order to ensure that the bass does not compete with other instruments." Instead, they are saying something more like "do not use a ridiculously scooped, smiley-face EQ in the way that a lot of metal bass players still do for some reason." I think the latter is more or less automatically correct advice in most situations.
Click to expand...

I understood what twinfallsbass was meaning, but unfortunately I didn't say it, sorry about that. However it is still true that metal bass sound needs to be often more or less scooped sound compared to music styles with more room for mids. Of course guitar sound, tuning and music style affect heavily how to fit bass into mix and there is no single rule. I just wanted to point out that "don't scoop your mids" may be understood wrong. Antithesis (opposite?) for ridiculously scooped mids could be "boost your mids" = ridiculously added all mids into EQ to sound honky, clanky, hollow and nasal at the same time and bury everything else :).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AlexanderB
#43
Shawn Blanton said:
I play a Fender Squire Classic Vibe 60's P Bass in a heavy metal band!
I'm the vocalist and I'm just learning to play, the problem is we have an overzealous drummer heavily influenced by Metallica and Iron Maiden!
I have $600 to spend on a bass combo!

I'm considering the Orange Crush Bass 100 combo!
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the party. As you are speaking to thousands of other forum users, you can see that saying "any suggestions?" nets you quite a bit to wade through. Because anyone can post anything they want or believe and are largely made up of anecdotes and opinions, some suggestions won't necessarily be appropriate and some won't be valid belief or opinions...and in the flow of posts, it may not be easy to recognize the value and validity of various suggestions.

I'm demonstrably the odd man out on this, but it seems beneficial to consider various relevant aspects of a situation before offering suggestions.

- You play in a heavy metal band
- You're *just learning to play*, and you also sing
- You have (the problem of) what you call an "overzealous" drummer
- You have $600 and want a combo amp
- You're considering the Orange Crush Bass 100

Assuming you put correct information in, you're a middle aged man.

To me, probably the most salient thing is that you are just learning to play, which leads me to ask, what are your goals and background are?

Are you "just learning" to play bass as an entrance to playing music generally, or are you someone who's been singing or playing a different instrument in bands and you're picking up the bass for some reason?

Is this a dad-band of guys who like heavy metal setting up a space in someone's garage or basement who'll get together for hang time and weekly life therapy, or are there some specific plans to play out? In the first type of scenario, you may never be planning to play out other than not being opposed to playing for backyard parties and other functions that might come along, and that's great and common

Regardless of that, if you are just learning, we are currently talking a rehearsal situation, and you say that you sing. What's the PA setup? That's relevant because many PA setups can carry or reinforce bass.

I'd also ask what do you have now, why you want a combo amp, and why you're considering the Orange Crush Bass 100?
 
#45
Shawn Blanton said:
I play a Fender Squire Classic Vibe 60's P Bass in a heavy metal band!
I'm the vocalist and I'm just learning to play, the problem is we have an overzealous drummer heavily influenced by Metallica and Iron Maiden!
I have $600 to spend on a bass combo!

I'm considering the Orange Crush Bass 100 combo!
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

You need speaker surface area. A combo isn't going to get you there. Scope out used deals on big cabs. Then use whatever you have left for a used head.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This will get you heard!
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Boom!
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#48
OP ... listen ... drown out the "You must have 600 watts and a 410" ....

I'm all for as much power and speaker as one can afford. But I've been doing this a long time and last Sunday played with one of the loudest bands I've ever played with. And my little KB12 was keeping up. Not dispersing well, but workable. And stayed clean and clear past noon. The 15" version would have been even better. And I've read guys here saying they've gigged without PA support using a Rumble 500 and even a 200. Old Peavey combos usually ran around 150 watts without extension cabs and no one who ever used one in a backline said they lacked volume. Especially with newer combos, a lot of work has gone into making them more efficient. A KB12 or Rumble 200 is not you're grampa's combo. Most here would be surprised at what 200 watts and a good 1x12 or 1x15 would do if they left their bias at home.

You don't need 600 watts and a 4x10. There are myriad combos that will carry almost any band, and that have a clean DI if you do have PA support. Same for many micro heads and a lightweight 1x12. Don't belive this nonsense about needing a wall of sound when just starting out and on a budget.
 
Last edited:
#49
@Phlipper - I am glad that your KB12 is working well for you! However, you are definitely in a situation with a band that understands stage volume and/or acoustics are in your favor. In addition, I am guessing you are the only one who can hear the KB12. If it works for your band, cool! I highly doubt you are playing metal though.....

In my experience, acoustics play a HUGE part in whether or not a rig will be loud enough at practice or at the show. A 410 and 600 watts or around that just about ensures you can hear yourself in both situations. It is also a good idea to have that firepower on hand so you can focus on singing instead of listening for signs of distress coming from your bass rig. I think the OP would hear signs of distress in half a second with the Hartke SB12.
 
#50
I've always said it's always better to have a V8 under the hood so your prepared for any situation. Headroom is my best friend. After all these years and rigs I'm happily sporting a Mesa 115 with 800 watts and I'm ready for any situation. DI it and it's icing on the cake. ;)
Mesa.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gearhead17
#51
Heavy hitting drummer....why do I feel dismayed when you read about a band having to try and keep up with ppl like this.
I give it around 20yrs until you realise this is futile and you've potentially blown your ears ...unless you heed good advice in threads like these.

Heavy hitting should not be confused with power and shed builders should not be indulged.
Did I make mistakes tolerating loud drummers...you bet.
 
#52
Gearhead17 said:
@Phlipper - I am glad that your KB12 is working well for you! However, you are definitely in a situation with a band that understands stage volume and/or acoustics are in your favor. In addition, I am guessing you are the only one who can hear the KB12. If it works for your band, cool! I highly doubt you are playing metal though.....

In my experience, acoustics play a HUGE part in whether or not a rig will be loud enough at practice or at the show. A 410 and 600 watts or around that just about ensures you can hear yourself in both situations. It is also a good idea to have that firepower on hand so you can focus on singing instead of listening for signs of distress coming from your bass rig. I think the OP would hear signs of distress in half a second with the Hartke SB12.
Click to expand...

I usually ignore these kinds of comments, but you're just wrong. Period. It was an audition and believe me they were listening closely to what I played, if ignoring me in general. :laugh:

Corrosion of Conformity isn't metal? Who knew? :thumbsdown:

Anyone HAVING to use 600 watts and a pair of 410s is in for a rude awakening when they're older. My left ear is gone. Completely. Of course .... gunfire, straight pipes, and a baseball bat didn't help. But my money is on decades of too-loud stage volume.

But you do you, brother. You'll learn the hard way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbase
#53
Phlipper said:
I usually ignore these kinds of comments, but you're just wrong. Period. It was an audition and believe me they were listening closely to what I played, if ignoring me in general. :laugh:

Corrosion of Conformity isn't metal? Who knew? :thumbsdown:

Anyone HAVING to use 600 watts and a pair of 410s is in for a rude awakening when they're older. My left ear is gone. Completely. Of course .... gunfire, straight pipes, and a baseball bat didn't help. But my money is on decades of too-loud stage volume.

But you do you, brother. You'll learn the hard way.
Click to expand...

Learning hard way? Quite many metal players use ear plugs because of loud guitars and drums. And with all this you would need pretty fast 600w and 1-2 410s. Against 2 Marshall half stacks 112 combo is not really bringing the solid foundation - at least not for me.
 
#54
As I said, it wasn't ideal and the 15" version would have been better. But it most certainly did hang.

Imho (call me crazy) advice to young/new players should be "Tell your mates to turn down to a reasonable volume." rather than to go buy a stadium rig.
 
#55
@Phlipper

You aren't crazy. Asking others to turn down for the sake of the band is ALWAYS a good idea in theory, but rarely happens. The key person here is the drummer. If the drummer has NO IDEA on how to play more dynamically or reduce their volume in other ways, it's a losing battle.

By the way, I was referring to ONE 410, not two. I also wear ear plugs at bars, practices, and live shows.

As to me being wrong, well, I just wanted to point that telling others all they need is a combo amp to hang with a metal band is a recipe for disaster. Bass rigs are not cheap and I wanted the OP to use their money wisely. I have not been in a situation where a tiny combo amp was a good choice to hear myself (practice or live). I have played with various metal groups, 80's/90's rock, Weezer, and more.

Lastly, you seem to think that two 410's is AUTMOTICALLY a stadium rig. There is a volume knob.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: paskisti
#56
A pair of 410s is most certainly what I call a "stadium rig". As was my pair of Avatar 2x12s with a 700 watt lead sled on top. But I never played a stadium wif em. And I did, indeed, use the volume knob in the dingy little biker bars I played. :laugh:

Total over-kill. :hyper: But it looked cool and that's what really matters. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
#58
Slough Feg Bass said:
the answer here is used Peavey amps and cabs to build yourself enough firepower to destroy all in your path.
Click to expand...

Gorilla Fingers said:
+1 for used Peavey gear. Sure, it weighs a little, but it's loud and cheap enough to be within your budget.

Also +1 on getting a head and cab instead of a combo. A combo just won't cut it here.
Click to expand...

With a bit of patient searching, some elbow grease for clean-up, and some minor-ish repairs, I've got about as much in this as the OP's budget....

20220319_211219.jpg







:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Slough Feg Bass and Gearhead17

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back