Need Univox Violin Bass Pickups

[Lanaka]

Aloha TB,

Hope someone can help me find pickups for this bass I recently purchased for $50. It's an Univox violin type bass.

Front

Back

The body is in good shape, even the scroll head stock is still intact with it's back facing black tuners still in good shape. The gorgeous sunburst finish is in remarkably good shape for a 50+ year old guitar. Amazingly the pickguard is also intact (thinking of leaving it on the guitar). The neck is straight and the fretboard is good. The frets of course needs addressing, mainly removal of 50 years of surface tarnish but appears to be usable.

Body

Headstock Back

Alas the electronics are in much worse shape. The bridge pickup works, but is missing the cover and is held in place only by magnetism to the back plate. The neck pickup is missing, only the pickup ring and the back plate are still intact. I want to get a pair of splittable pickups that can complement this guitar's hollow body resonances and still be able to occasionally go into high gain territory. I prefer to fit the new pups inside the rings with little/no modifications but it's not as critical as the pup ring are under the elevated pickguard.

I like playing a wide range of music from blues/jazz to rock plus hard rock/metal. Any recommendations on a pair of splittable pickups that are flexible enough to play in a wide range of music AND fit with minimum mods?

Bridge, Knobs, Switch

The 3-way toggle switch and output jack seems to work well enough to keep. The pots also appears to work, but the tone unfortunately sports an aftermarket plastic hat knob. I want to swap them for push/pulls to work with splittable pickups. I'm thinking of using 2 volumes as I almost never use a tone knob. I'd want to get a pair of metal knobs that is similar to the original metal knob. Any recommendations here?

The non-adjustable wooden floating bridge just won't do. Any recommendations for an adjustable saddle bridge that can tune for intonation? Prefer just replacing the top portion and retain the wooden base with it's height adjustment. I like the fact it's floating which allows a bit of scale length adjustment (about 29-31").

I already have another bass that is a Frankenstein (Crate body, Fender neck, SD split P-style Quarter Pounders) that delivers high gain tone but not much else. I want the Univox to be more versatile. Any help would be appreciated!

FrankenBass (aka Adam)

Mahalo Nui Loa Kakou!
(Thank you very much!)
-Lanaka

EDIT: Added PS.
PS: I intend to name the Univox Victor. Anyone who've read Frankenstein should get why I chose the names for both basses.

MODERATORS: If I have posted this thread in the wrong place please kindly let me know and I will repost as appropriate.

 

[ctmullins]

That looks really nice, especially for such a low price!

I want to get a pair of splittable pickups that can complement this guitar's hollow body resonances and still be able to occasionally go into high gain territory. I prefer to fit the new pups inside the rings with little/no modifications but it's not as critical as the pup ring are under the elevated pickguard.

At first glance they look to be mini-humbucker sized, but you’ll need to take careful and thorough measurements to confirm. Fortunately, there’s never been a wider variety of aftermarket pickups available than there is today, so I’m confident you can find something agreeable!

I like playing a wide range of music from blues/jazz to rock plus hard rock/metal.

I love the notion of using a violin bass in a metal band!

The non-adjustable wooden floating bridge just won't do. Any recommendations for an adjustable saddle bridge that can tune for intonation?

If the saddle is floating, as in “not glued to the body”, then it is adjustable for intonation, by simply adjusting its position on the body as needed.

I like the fact it's floating which allows a bit of scale length adjustment (about 29-31").

That’s not how scale length works. Scale length is not adjustable (unless you’re playing a fretless); it is strictly defined by the distance between the frets. Measure from the nut to the 12th fret and multiply by two - that’s your scale length, period.

Interested in your measurements of the pickups/rings/cavities!

 

[96tbird]

Yep. You can’t change the scale length.

Set intonation by angling the bridge. Most floating bridges only get you in the ballpark. Few have independently adjustable saddles except the old Matsumoku products but it seems no one makes them currently. You could get your hands on a metal “tune o matic” type and fashion a wood base for it. If tou can find appropriate string spacing.

You can try a metal saddle Hofner bridge if You don’t like the wood saddles. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Lanaka]

At first glance they look to be mini-humbucker sized, but you’ll need to take careful and thorough measurements to confirm.

Oops, after doing all the correcting and formatting of the post, I've forgotten the most important part of the question: the measurements! Sorry about that. I've appended them to the end of the reply (below).

I love the notion of using a violin bass in a metal band!

Lol, it's different, yes? The fact that it's hollow body with a well seasoned wood ought to offer tonal versatility. I dunno whether the exterior panels are solid or laminates, but considering it's age, it probably doesn't matter anyway.

If the saddle is floating, as in “not glued to the body”, then it is adjustable for intonation, by simply adjusting its position on the body as needed.

Yeah, that's true but I'd prefer individual adjustment for each string. One thing I've noticed with solid floaters is that you have to settle for an average setting across all strings since the intonation part is permanently a straight line. On every electric guitars I've had, I've as yet to have any guitar that had the saddles intonate in a straight line.

That’s not how scale length works. Scale length is not adjustable (unless you’re playing a fretless); it is strictly defined by the distance between the frets. Measure from the nut to the 12th fret and multiply by two - that’s your scale length, period.

My bad, that's what I get for posting with little sleep over the previous 36 hours. When I was talking about being able to move around for adjustment. It's for intonation, not scale length, even tho the individual intonation is limited to a straight line. What I don't like about adjusting one of these is that it's like tuning an old automobile engine carburetor's power, main and idle circuits. You adjust one circuit, but that will throw off the other two. Fix any of the other two and the first circuit gets thrown off. Then it's a matter of constantly tweaking each of the three with progressively smaller tweaks until they are all set with the best possible tuning. A royal pain in the arse process. Unfortunately, a solid bar intonation is like tuning a carburetor with ONLY the Jets with no bleed screws (or vice versus). You can only get into the ballpark range of ideal tuning.

FYI, the scale length via the 12th fret measurement is 15-1/8" x 2 = 30-1/4". Oops, I'm slightly off. Ugh, no wonder it sounded a bit off. Bridge was at 30.1" not 30.25". Fixed! But the intonation, while better, is still slightly off.

Interested in your measurements of the pickups/rings/cavities!

Here they are!

The pickup rings' inside measurements of the opening is 3-1/8" wide and 1-7/16" high. The pickup mounting screws are 3-1/2" apart, center to center.

Both pickup rings are identical except for their heights. The neck is flat top and bottom. While the bridge is flat top with arched base. However due to the curvature of the soundboard, the bridge ring gives an appearance of an angled top.

Both are just over 1/4" tall in the center, and the ring mounting bolts spacing is 3-7/8" wide and 1-1/4" high, center to center.

Considering the black pickup rings' age, I'm amazed that they're in such good shape. There's some cracks coming out of the pickup mounting holes, but that's expected. I think I will add a thin metal mounting ring on top to protect and reinforce the OE rings, unless I can find a set of black metal pup rings that is flat for the neck and arched for the bridge with compatible mounting bolts patterns to replace the originals.

Thanks for replying and sorry for the delay in response. Was recovering from the argle-bargle that was at work over the Holidays.

-Lance

 

[Lanaka]

Set intonation by angling the bridge. Most floating bridges only get you in the ballpark. Few have independently adjustable saddles except the old Matsumoku products but it seems no one makes them currently. You could get your hands on a metal “tune o matic” type and fashion a wood base for it. If you can find appropriate string spacing.

You can try a metal saddle Hofner bridge if You don’t like the wood saddles. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

That Hofner metal saddle looks like what I'm looking for in replacing the OE saddles! Thanks for the link! Sorry I didn't see your post until after I've already made my response to ctmullins. But, yes, I agree with ye insofar as tuning with a solid saddle is concerned, just not as succinctly phrased, lol!

Thanks again for the link, now to research who has the best prices for those saddles...

And continue the search for pickups and, perhaps, pickup rings. And metal pot knobs. And... And... And...

LOL, never ending projects! Part of the fun, yes?

-Lance

 

[ctmullins]

Yeah, that's true but I'd prefer individual adjustment for each string. One thing I've noticed with solid floaters is that you have to settle for an average setting across all strings since the intonation part is permanently a straight line. On every electric guitars I've had, I've as yet to have any guitar that had the saddles intonate in a straight line.

Electric guitars (the six-skinny-stringed variety) don’t intonate in a straight line because they use a combination of wound and plain strings. Bass strings are always wound, and the gauges are graduated in essentially a linear/proportional relationship, so the intonation pattern tends to also be linear. It’s a straight line; it’s just not perpendicular to the centerline of the body.

And/or, you’re way more picky about intonation than I am...

The pickup rings' inside measurements of the opening is 3-1/8" wide and 1-7/16" high. The pickup mounting screws are 3-1/2" apart, center to center.

Well, that’s definitely bigger than mini-humbucker, and also bigger than TV Jones (I was hoping to be able to recommend TV Jones...). But it is almost exactly the right size for - wait for it - a seven-string guitar humbucker, like the D Sonic 7TM | DiMarzio.

In case you’re wondering, guitar pickups can work great for bass, depending on voicing. The electromagnetic principles are exactly the same. The trick is to get one that isn’t massively overwound.

 

[Lanaka]

Electric guitars (the six-skinny-stringed variety) don’t intonate in a straight line because they use a combination of wound and plain strings. Bass strings are always wound, and the gauges are graduated in essentially a linear/proportional relationship, so the intonation pattern tends to also be linear. It’s a straight line; it’s just not perpendicular to the centerline of the body.

Looking back that DOES make sense that intonation would be a function of string width, just never had anyone explicitly point that out to me. Thanks, this will make it easier for me to intonate faster. I like trying different strings on different guitars but had a frustrating time intonating a new set, which is often not only different gauges but often differently wound or plain. It never occurred to me that intonation is a function of string widths. Hmm methinks I'm gonna actually sit down and measure actual string widths and see where they intonate. Then record them into a table and see whether I can work out an equation that would allow me to predict where to start intonation at.

And/or, you’re way more picky about intonation than I am...

Lol, that too. I'm guessing that's cuz I tend to overcompensate due to fact that I'm also hearing impaired.

But it is almost exactly the right size for - wait for it - a seven-string guitar humbucker, like the D Sonic 7TM | DiMarzio.

Lol, had people recommending the Duncan mini humbuckers, but had reservations as they looked rather tiny. But 7-Strings?! Heh, truth be told, I've never considered putting 7ers in a 4 string bass. Especially since string spacing on my bass are also quite small (@ ~ 2" e to e at the bridge). This guitar has very similar specs to a Hofner violin bass.

I was at the local guitar shop and someone there recommended that I look at the Music Man bass pickups from Seymour Duncan. He pointed out that while they too are rather long, but should also fit. He said I can choose between actives or passives too. I will look into those too. Another option is to find a rail based pickup as those should not be string spacing sensitive. (I'm sure I'm not the only one who occasionally string bend bass guitars.)

The trick is to get one that isn’t massively overwound.

Bummers guess high output gainy pups are out then. Out of curiosity, why would super overwound pups be bad for basses? Because I was hoping to get something that can get snarly crunchy and yet clean up nicely when dialed back.
Have an opportunity to buy a 7-string Duncan Invader set, just never went for it cuz I didn't have any 7-string guitars. Think it could work?

Thanks for the very helpful info! I really appreciate it because I'm more scientific minded and do like detailed explanations on how and why things work and how things can be modified and why they react to different mods the way they do!

Mahalo Nui Loa Kakou!
(Hawaiian: Thank You Very Much!)
-Lan

 

[Lanaka]

But it is almost exactly the right size for - wait for it - a seven-string guitar humbucker, like the D Sonic 7TM | DiMarzio.

Well well well, the D Sonics are very interesting, they look almost identical to the DiMarzo Crunch Lab I recently picked up for another project guitar (an Epi Pee Wee LP, no joke, I'm serious).

What's even better is that these are half rails too! Hell might pick up a 6er to combine with another Crunch Lab for still another project guitar (an Electra Futura X2RD).

Hwy, they're 4 wires too! Hehe, love coil splitting!

Even if I don't use the D Sonic in my Univox 'Lectra, I certainly will use it somewhere else! Thanks for the lead!

 

[Lanaka]

You could get your hands on a metal “tune o matic” type and fashion a wood base for it. If tou can find appropriate string spacing.

You can try a metal saddle Hofner bridge if You don’t like the wood saddles.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Aloha 96tbird,

I've looked at the link you provided and while it's interesting, I'd prefer getting a metal saddle. So I'm going to opt for your other suggestion and looked for a bolt down version of the tuneomatic (TOM) bridge. While I couldn't find any such on eBay at the time I looked, I DID find one on Reverb. Unfortunately it's the gold version, but might buy it anyway. (BB-TOM-G Gold Tunematic Bridge for 4-String Bass w/ Studs)

Especially if I also go for the brass nut from the same seller.
(BN-3BRASS (1) Brass Slotted 4-String Guitar Bass Nut 43mm)

Unfortunately, the tuners on my 'Lectra are chrome, not gold. Although if worse gets to worst, I could have them brass plated too.

Just realized that if I go golden, am gonna have to swap out BOTH pup knobs for brass metal knobs. And swap the string anchor for a brass version to color coordinate the whole guitar.

Found these via Google Image search using the image you provided. Thanks for yer help!

-Lan

 

[Stempelloos]

Another option is to find a rail based pickup as those should not be string spacing sensitive. (I'm sure I'm not the only one who occasionally string bend bass guitars.)

If you're looking for rail based bass pickups, Bill Lawrence EB-50PC Blade Style Pickup for Electric Bass Guitars might be right.
Link Removed

Or a Höfner blade pickup.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Lanaka]

If you're looking for rail based bass pickups, Bill Lawrence EB-50PC Blade Style Pickup for Electric Bass Guitars might be right.
Link Removed
View attachment 3297353

Or a Höfner blade pickup.
View attachment 3297354
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thanks for posting leads although unfortunately both were already sold, but will keep on looking!

Liked the Hofner's vintage feel, even tho it looks like only 2 conductors.

I'm going to have to research Bill Lawrence as I'm not familiar with that brand.

-Lan

 

[Stempelloos]

The original pickup, or whats left of it, looks like a single coil.
The Höfner blade pickups are single coils too.

Another option might be a Duesenberg Bass-Bucker.

Invalid Link Removed

4-conductor. Fits a standard humbucker mounting ring. Size in mm (L x W x H): 69,8 x 37,9 x 26,8.

 

[ctmullins]

Good suggestions guys, but his existing rings are too large for a standard guitar-sized humbucker.

Re Bill Lawrence: The man was a genius, but years ago he had a legal dispute with a business partner; the end result is that there are two Bill Lawrence pickup companies out there now. Bill and his family (just his family now, since he passed) operate under Wilde Pickups (www.wildepickups.com), and the other fellow does business as Bill Lawrence USA. I have several Wilde pickups, and they’re incredible.

 

[ctmullins]

Lol, had people recommending the Duncan mini humbuckers, but had reservations as they looked rather tiny. But 7-Strings?! Heh, truth be told, I've never considered putting 7ers in a 4 string bass. Especially since string spacing on my bass are also quite small (@ ~ 2" e to e at the bridge).

Yes, with narrow string spacing like that they could have fitted smaller pickups. But if you want to re-use those rings then those are the dimensions you need.

Bummers guess high output gainy pups are out then. Out of curiosity, why would super overwound pups be bad for basses? Because I was hoping to get something that can get snarly crunchy and yet clean up nicely when dialed back.

Overwinding a pickup does increase its output, but the side effect is that it also changes the tone - you generally get more mids and less bass and treble. That might work okay for guitarists, but tends to make a bass sound honky. A more balanced pickup is what you want for bass.

Have an opportunity to buy a 7-string Duncan Invader set, just never went for it cuz I didn't have any 7-string guitars. Think it could work?

From a quick glance at Duncan’s site, the Invaders appear to be exactly the kind of overwound mid-focused pickups I’m warning you against... I mean, they’ll work, in the sense that they’ll produce sound, but I doubt you’d like the sound. Doesn’t hurt to try though!

 

[Lanaka]

Overwinding a pickup does increase its output, but the side effect is that it also changes the tone - you generally get more mids and less bass and treble. That might work okay for guitarists, but tends to make a bass sound honky. A more balanced pickup is what you want for bass.

From a quick glance at Duncan’s site, the Invaders appear to be exactly the kind of overwound mid-focused pickups I’m warning you against... I mean, they’ll work, in the sense that they’ll produce sound, but I doubt you’d like the sound. Doesn’t hurt to try though!

Lol, I just tried it. A quickie setup by lowering the OE backing plates all the way down then stuck the Crunch Lab I had lying around in there using a rolled piece of duct tape. Twist tied the wire ends together. Then jacked in the bass. "Doubt you'd like the sound," is a serious understatement, LOL!

Sounded like a castrated bass with most of the lows rolled off. And because of the significantly heavier strings, it's like a castrated guitar with the highs rolled off too!

Sounded more like a buzzy drop tuned electric baritone ukulele with way-oversized strings. (And yes, I tried ONCE.)

Nuff said, at the end of the experiment, I couldn't pull the pups out fast enough!

Interesting experience tho. Now have a better appreciation for the art of pup selection! Thank you!

-Lan