may as well leave now since, as soon as they can find him/her, you're soon to be replaced by a more experienced player who meets their criteria and skill level.
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New Band Red Flag
- Thread starter SCS
- Start date
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
It's not that black and white - it comes down to why.
Remember, the typical Motown sessions had two keyboards, three guitars, and at least two percussionists. There were plenty of times other musicians were holding down the beat, allowing Jamerson to go off playing melodies. In a small band, with one drummer and probably two guitar/keys, there may be more need for the bassist to keep the beat.
Jamerson also had exceptional time - he could be playing complex melodies all over the fretboard, while still keeping the beat. OP described himself as an intermediate bassist. Perhaps he was not keeping time on the more complex parts.
On the other hand, BL may just be an overbearing idiot. Such is the reason I suggested OP have a talk with BL.
Remember, the typical Motown sessions had two keyboards, three guitars, and at least two percussionists. There were plenty of times other musicians were holding down the beat, allowing Jamerson to go off playing melodies. In a small band, with one drummer and probably two guitar/keys, there may be more need for the bassist to keep the beat.
Jamerson also had exceptional time - he could be playing complex melodies all over the fretboard, while still keeping the beat. OP described himself as an intermediate bassist. Perhaps he was not keeping time on the more complex parts.
On the other hand, BL may just be an overbearing idiot. Such is the reason I suggested OP have a talk with BL.
A lot of responses and I appreciate the feed back, I'm dealing with a slight flood problem right now, but just some clarification points.
I prefer a strong band leader, the last band slowly turned into a mess because the BL allowed himself to be overruled by another BM
My goal was to find a band with better musicians than myself, the saying: it's better to be the worse musician in the room was what I was shooting for. I over shot.
This area is a little sticky as bands go, We are over run with classic rock bands, plenty of bassist, very few non classic rock bands with potential to make paying gigs, and bars etc. before covid were starving for non classic rock bands/party bands. I live in a remote part of the state and have to travel. Given the above, I tend to stick it out hoping for the best.
I love Tennessee Whisky's bass line
Back to work I'll read and reply later Thanks
I prefer a strong band leader, the last band slowly turned into a mess because the BL allowed himself to be overruled by another BM
My goal was to find a band with better musicians than myself, the saying: it's better to be the worse musician in the room was what I was shooting for. I over shot.
This area is a little sticky as bands go, We are over run with classic rock bands, plenty of bassist, very few non classic rock bands with potential to make paying gigs, and bars etc. before covid were starving for non classic rock bands/party bands. I live in a remote part of the state and have to travel. Given the above, I tend to stick it out hoping for the best.
I love Tennessee Whisky's bass line
Back to work I'll read and reply later Thanks
do what he wants you to do. see where it goes (music, hang, $$$).
the 'i would confront him' feedback you're getting comes from wannabes and posers. folks who haven't successfully played in a band...maybe haven't played in any band. wannabes don't get the gigs. professionalism always wins. your personal 'style' is not important in a group/ensemble unless you're hired specifically for your personal style!
good luck with your opportunity!
Not knowing more than you posted, there is no simple suggestion:
1. In some cases - especially older rock - very simple bass lines are in order. Motown has some songs that should be very simple and some that should have some movement in them. It's possible that your BL's direction is appropriate. Without knowing the specific song it's hard to say.
2. Even if the original song calls for a busy bassline, the way that your group is playing it may require a simpler part than the original. Cover bands cover songs in ways that range from "it kind of sounds like the original" to " note for note duplication of the original". Most are somewhere in between. We as musicians need to find the lines that work well for the band we're playing with.
3. You may never be happy in this band. If you don't like being told what to play, it sounds like it's just not a good fit. I wouldn't play in a band where there is constant pressure to play "what I'm told". I have no issue with occasional, "try this", or "I'm not crazy about what you're doing there" from the BL (or anyone else in the band) and have no issues adjusting my parts. Probably because it's not often and the guys trust me to support the songs in my way.
4. The choices for you are:
- Recognize that you have a huge opportunity to grow as a musician - most of us don't get to play with musicians that are all above our level. If you give it a chance you may find that they are right and you can learn from them.
-Decide that you don't like that level of direction and move on. There no shame in deciding the situation is not a good fit for you.
Again based on your post, if it were me, I'd be inclined to find an hour to sit down with the BL outside of rehearsal, over coffee or cocktails or what ever is appropriate, and ask him specific questions on specific songs about why he feels that your lines should be what he's asking. Maybe he can share how he's coming to his conclusions and will help you accept his direction - an maybe not even need it because you'll begin to adopt the philosophy on your own. Maybe he's just full of hot air and you'll know to move on.
Best of luck.
1. In some cases - especially older rock - very simple bass lines are in order. Motown has some songs that should be very simple and some that should have some movement in them. It's possible that your BL's direction is appropriate. Without knowing the specific song it's hard to say.
2. Even if the original song calls for a busy bassline, the way that your group is playing it may require a simpler part than the original. Cover bands cover songs in ways that range from "it kind of sounds like the original" to " note for note duplication of the original". Most are somewhere in between. We as musicians need to find the lines that work well for the band we're playing with.
3. You may never be happy in this band. If you don't like being told what to play, it sounds like it's just not a good fit. I wouldn't play in a band where there is constant pressure to play "what I'm told". I have no issue with occasional, "try this", or "I'm not crazy about what you're doing there" from the BL (or anyone else in the band) and have no issues adjusting my parts. Probably because it's not often and the guys trust me to support the songs in my way.
4. The choices for you are:
- Recognize that you have a huge opportunity to grow as a musician - most of us don't get to play with musicians that are all above our level. If you give it a chance you may find that they are right and you can learn from them.
-Decide that you don't like that level of direction and move on. There no shame in deciding the situation is not a good fit for you.
Again based on your post, if it were me, I'd be inclined to find an hour to sit down with the BL outside of rehearsal, over coffee or cocktails or what ever is appropriate, and ask him specific questions on specific songs about why he feels that your lines should be what he's asking. Maybe he can share how he's coming to his conclusions and will help you accept his direction - an maybe not even need it because you'll begin to adopt the philosophy on your own. Maybe he's just full of hot air and you'll know to move on.
Best of luck.
The first worship team I was on in college was led by a former (very accomplished) bassist who held a music ed. degree, and who had transitioned to acoustic guitar and vocals. He was extremely anal about how I played, and insisted that I stick to the most basic roots at first. It felt very limiting, but his reasoning was sound. He didn't trust me yet, and wanted to ensure as few distractions as possible for the congregation. After a while, and through a lot of time together in rehearsals, he started trusting my "feel" and style. We played a lot of hours together over many years, and by the time I left, he trusted me to do literally whatever I wanted to do.
Sounds to me that your drummer simply has a trust issue, and it may actually serve everyone best if you show him that you're willing to follow his direction up front. You can try to branch out more over time, and make sure he's cool with what you did each time. Build on that, and over time you can play what you want, and he will still trust your style. That's the hope, anyway.
Sounds to me that your drummer simply has a trust issue, and it may actually serve everyone best if you show him that you're willing to follow his direction up front. You can try to branch out more over time, and make sure he's cool with what you did each time. Build on that, and over time you can play what you want, and he will still trust your style. That's the hope, anyway.
At some point in your playing career, you might reach (as I have) a point where you expect your musical judgment as to what you as a bassist are going to play to be respected.
I am sometimes still open to suggestions but I largely want to be left alone to determine for myself what’s the best bassline/accompaniment for the song.
I am sometimes still open to suggestions but I largely want to be left alone to determine for myself what’s the best bassline/accompaniment for the song.
Is the drummer Terry Bozzio? I could see Terry Bozzio wanting the bassist to step back a little. So roll with it, he's really great and he knows what he's talking about. Listen to him because he will teach you. He's the first person to play The Black Page to Zappa's 100% satisfaction.
If he's not Bozzio and just a perfectly adequate drummer in an oldies band that is not currently very busy due to ongoing concerns related to the global pandemic and things you should be able to debate your position comfortably.
Set aside the attitudes for a moment. And FWIW I would take suggestions and criticism to heart but unless there's a paycheck it's a democracy in the rehearsal space in my opinion, I'd hike if he is being a jerk about it. Have you had heated discussions about it or do you internalize the comments?
Finally, does the bass line he wants you to play differ from the classic version of the song you are playing? You could play the recording and say "this is what I am trying to play". "Should I do my (your/his) own thing or play what is on the recording?" I assume if it is a classic song that everybody knows it would be immediately apparent if he is telling you to play the wrong bass line.
The worst outcome is you quit or get booted from a band with someone you're not getting along with that currently has no prospects other than jamming. Best case is position yourself as a partner willing to participate in the success of the unit.
If he's not Bozzio and just a perfectly adequate drummer in an oldies band that is not currently very busy due to ongoing concerns related to the global pandemic and things you should be able to debate your position comfortably.
Set aside the attitudes for a moment. And FWIW I would take suggestions and criticism to heart but unless there's a paycheck it's a democracy in the rehearsal space in my opinion, I'd hike if he is being a jerk about it. Have you had heated discussions about it or do you internalize the comments?
Finally, does the bass line he wants you to play differ from the classic version of the song you are playing? You could play the recording and say "this is what I am trying to play". "Should I do my (your/his) own thing or play what is on the recording?" I assume if it is a classic song that everybody knows it would be immediately apparent if he is telling you to play the wrong bass line.
The worst outcome is you quit or get booted from a band with someone you're not getting along with that currently has no prospects other than jamming. Best case is position yourself as a partner willing to participate in the success of the unit.
Benjamin Earl
Commercial User
- Dec 31, 2008
- 281
- 469
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I completely agree. NJ bands have the potential to make a lot of money if you're good and have a unique sound. Well paying gigs are abundant for danceable non-classic rock bands. If you feel the potential is there and the band leader has a good vision, then I would stick with it. I wish you luck!
We haven't locked in musically. Personality wise, on breaks he all about the music and potential songs to do next. We are approaching 30 songs after just 6 rehearsals, so I think I'm doing pretty good for being in a new genre. The singer (who is outta this world) keys and sax and to a lesser extent the guitarist (who is across the room) have been easy to connect with.
Bar owners around here will tell you, all classic rock bands say they are danceable and they all say they have a following, either end up being true. They have enough classic rock bands that can make it work. The 20/30 something females (who dance) will always leave after the first drink when a classic rock band is playing, the last thing a bar owner wants to see happen.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
It's very difficult to say something accurate without actually hearing the band and how OP's playing interacts with their sound.
However, I would listen to the drummer and change my parts. If one is unable to adapt his playing according to the musical surroundings, then he can't call himself a bass player, IMHO.
However, I would listen to the drummer and change my parts. If one is unable to adapt his playing according to the musical surroundings, then he can't call himself a bass player, IMHO.
Perhaps but without listening to the music itself and to the specific request it’s hard for us to know whether the drummer is in-bounds or not.
Cover songs Basslines are already written. I would do my best to cop the original line. If that doesn’t work, move on.
Benjamin Earl
Commercial User
- Dec 31, 2008
- 281
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Sure don't get me wrong, there are definitely a lot of danceable classic rock songs that "work" in this music scene. However, the market is saturated with classic rock bands that do not get the dance floor moving. In my experience NJ bands that mix danceable hits (of all genres) are sought after by music venues and high end booking agents.
