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New Cab Day - Genzler BA 12-3

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by revroy, Oct 25, 2015.


  1. I received my new cab last Friday - a Genzler BA 12-3 - and have used it in two very different settings this past weekend.

    The new cab has a Faital 12 inch woofer and 4, 3 inch mid/treble drivers in a line array at 8 ohms with a 350 watt rating. I had been using a 4 ohm Acme B2 - 2 10's, a 4 inch mid range and a soft dome tweeter. The Acme has a huge bottom but to me at times it felt a bit too much and seemed to overwhelm the mids and highs. It is also a very inefficient cab although it does take a lot of power very happily (I use a Genz Benz shuttle 9.0 - 900 watts into 4 ohms and 500 into 8). So I was looking for something a bit more efficient with tighter lows and which would sound more balanced across the registers to me (yes it is possible that I am not really looking for "balanced") and lighter weight would be a big plus.

    It is a small cab although the footprint is a bit larger than I expected. In both settings I raised the cab off the floor.

    My two different settings... The first was a gig in a bar with a pop band - acoustic guitar, drums, 2 electric guitars, and bass with a fairly loud guitar player. I was a bit concerned that a single 12 wouldn't go loud enough for the gig and I didn't want to push the new cab too hard. It seemed to hang in very nicely although at the loudest levels of the band it was perhaps a bit softer than the band required. It very well may have been fine for me to push further but I didn't. In part by not turning up, I was hoping to bring down the overall volume which was well beyond what I prefer. I was wearing earplugs so I didn't get a real sense for how the cab sat in the mix or sounded but my sense was that it was significantly more punchy than the Acme and probably carried a bit better in the room. As for volume... I was playing as loud as I'd ever want to play.

    The second setting was a church band. We play at a very reasonable level in a very good sounding and lively room. The instrumentation is a grand piano, acoustic guitar, synth, and electronic drums plus the bass. The punchiness of the cab was very apparent. The bottom was tight and strong but I did miss the big pillow of the Acme. The mids were also a lot more prevalent and any lines I played in the mid ranges of the bass came right out. The drummer sits to the side of the bass cab and told me that he was able to hear the bass much more clearly this week than prior.

    I also play with a number of singer/songwriters. I expect it will sit very nicely in that setting as well.

    All in all I'm pleased with the cab but I will need to get used to it.

    here's the website photo of the cab
    GENZLER_2015_081.
     
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  2. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Nice & congrats!
    At the church setting, you might try using the low boost button on the Shuttle & if need be, dial the bass control back to taste.
    IIRC, using the bass EQ contol, will shift the tone control in the frequencies just above the low boost button, so you might try it both ways: just the EQ up some without the boost on or the EQ down some with the low boost on.
     
    revroy likes this.
  3. rufus.K

    rufus.K

    Oct 18, 2015
    SoCal
    Glad to see some Genzler love
     
  4. mwbonsall

    mwbonsall Supporting Member

    Aug 2, 2000
    Casa Grande, Arizona
    One more suggestion, don't raise it off the floor and see if that improves the low end. And congratulations on the new gear!

    Mark
     
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  5. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Great review. Looks promising.
     
  6. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Supporting Member

    May 31, 2004
    San Diego, Ca.
    Dealer Nordstrand Pickups.
    Classy styling there Genzler.
     
    bass nitro likes this.
  7. raising a couple of ft doesn't hurt the lows.
     
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  8. I got to spend a little time with the BA12-3 and the Acme B2 today swapping them back and forth with the same settings on the amp, moving the cabs around a bit, and standing in different places on the small stage at church. The head was my Genz Benz shuttle 9.0 - 900 watts into 4 ohms and 500 into 8. Here's what I heard.

    The Acme, despite being significantly less efficient on paper, sounded a good deal louder, especially on the lower notes. It is a 4ohm cab while the Genzler is 8 so the B2 took advantage of more power but that should have only resulted in about 3 db of increase in volume correct? The difference seemed more than that. The low end on the Acme is HUGE but more than a bit flabby to my ears. I had been turning the bass EQ down with that cab and had it boosted a bit today which is what I've been doing with the Genzler. The Acme simply lost all definition on the low end with those settings.

    While the Acme seemed louder, the 12-3 seemed significantly more punchy. It does not feel lacking in the low end but it is much more defined. I would expect it to cut more in a dense mix even at a what seems a lower volume. So, the Acme gives this deep deep rumbly pillow while the 12-3 punches.

    I did try playing with the bass boost and the bass EQ as lo-freq suggested and I could get more of a pillow but the BA 12-3 never lost definition like the Acme. I didn't try extremes though as I was trying to get a feel for how I will actually use it.

    I tried putting the 12-3 on the floor as Mark suggested and that seemed to increase the lows a bit. It could be that all I was hearing was less mids and highs since they were shooting right at my calves but it did seem to make a difference in the lows. Someone with more knowledge would have to explain to what degree coupling with the floor impacts things. I should try that with either a longer cable or someone else playing so I can hear if there is any difference in the house or how much.

    The highs and mids seemed pretty similar on the two cabs from the front except that bottom end of the Acme really did overwhelm things. Playing around with the settings by lowering the bass EQ for the Acme helps there but the bottom end is still softer/mushier than I want.

    I stood to the side of both cabs to see how that affected what I was hearing and the difference was really significant. With the Acme I heard this big pillow and little else. I knew there was bass going on but there was very little definition at all. The Genzler did not sound as good directly to the side as it does even a little more to the front but it was significantly clearer than the Acme. I understood what the drummer had said on Sunday that he could hear me much better. I expect the rest of the band will hear me significantly better as well and I won't have to fight as hard to keep the groove going.

    I had thought I'd keep the Acme to have a second slightly different flavor but now I think it will go up for sale.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
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  9. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    Thanks for the update!



    Sounds like that is what you wanted isn't it?


    You might either get an amp wedge or improvise a way to have the cab on the floor, but tilted back a bit.
    Personally, I like to get my cabs about 12" up off the floor & then EQ the low end to the room.
    The closer the cab is to any large flat surface (floor &/or wall(s)) the more the low end will be reinforced acoustically.

    I also suspect that the more you play the BA12-3, the more the suspension of the woofer gets broken in, the better the low end will sound.
     
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  10. Yes!


    I have an amp stand I've been using. It let's me hear the cab and there is lots of room to eq.

    Should work out well...
     
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  11. When you move away from a bass reflecting surface you get a refected bass signal joining the main one with a delay. 2ft of delay is inconsequential. It's similar to the slight delay in a wall reflection from behind the cab which you covet without question.
     
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  12. bebass

    bebass Sho Me Music Commercial User

    Sep 3, 2006
    Bolivar, Missouri
    ShoMeMusic.com; Authorized dealer for Bergantino, Dingwall, Darkglass, Genzler, Phil Jones Bass, Quilter, Blackstar, Cort, Traynor, and other
    HA HA - I was just about to post on that. I think you are spot-on.

    I think in general these modern 12's need a bit of break-in time to fully open up on the low end. So in a way we can say they all get better with age - just like me as well as my bass playing (joke).
    Your description of the side dispersion is in-line with comments we have heard with line-array type cabs in general. Even with the PA cabs I have heard "We could almost leave our monitors at home"; this is congruent with your drummer's comments that he was "able to hear the bass much more clearly". I also find this to be true.
     
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  13. Anyone know how the array would compare to a Berg HD112 or cn112?
     
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  14. 5StringPocket

    5StringPocket Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2006
    Texas
    So 2 or 3 of these with a Mesa Subway D800 would sound fantastic and pretty much cover anything...
     
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  15. Saluki

    Saluki Supporting Member

    Nov 16, 2005
    Springfield, IL
    Bass Gear Magazine
    Yes.
     
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  16. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Cross pollination of two wildly popular new equipments? Shame on you!
     
  17. Spector2112

    Spector2112

    Jan 7, 2011
    Michigan
    Imagineering
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. bebass

    bebass Sho Me Music Commercial User

    Sep 3, 2006
    Bolivar, Missouri
    ShoMeMusic.com; Authorized dealer for Bergantino, Dingwall, Darkglass, Genzler, Phil Jones Bass, Quilter, Blackstar, Cort, Traynor, and other
    Someone posted in another thread a pic with 3 modern 12's and I have begun to think that this combination is the ultimate size/weight/sound for bass cabs.
    In general, from my experience with modern 12's two will give plenty of volume for most people, even with most any 500 watt amp, and even with some 200 watt amps.
    But there is just something about the looks and sound of 3 stacked modern 12's that spells WOW, and it does put one right up there making it SO easy to hear.
    I am guilty of doing this for the WOW factor and I mean my personal WOW as much as anyone's WOW that is looking at and hearing them. I like WOW!
     
  19. 5StringPocket

    5StringPocket Supporting Member

    Jan 11, 2006
    Texas
    +3 WOW!!!
     
  20. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    at over $3000 for three little 1x12 cabs, "wow" is right!

    i find myself wishing that the thing had been made with the box arrayed "vertical" to get at least some height out of it.

    also, what about a matching "sub" cab that was identical specs but without the array in front of the 12 (and without the big price tag)?

    i'd expect it wouldn't sound so good by itself being a strictly LF-type speaker, but under the matching full range cab it might be just the thing to reinforce low end and get those 3" mid drivers up where somebody can hear them, all without losing any low end floor coupling.
     
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