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Double Bass New jazz bass video tutorial series
I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I've always felt that much of the teaching aspect of Youtube is lost between the Expert Village idiots and guys who seem intent on flashing their chops instead of explaining the ins and outs of the instrument. Its good to see someone who actually knows what they're doing posting genuinely helpful info.
Looking forward to the next episode.
Looking forward to the next episode.
Really enjoyed this, Chris, especially in the focus on pull and getting a lot of flesh on the string. I'd like to open a discussion on the wrist, though! I agree that the wrist needs to absorb some of the force generated from the hip/back/shoulder/arm as it goes through to the fingers and string, but I don't think it needs to do it in this exaggerated wave motion. Looking at Ray Brown, George Mraz and Sam Jones, for example, you can't see much of this type of motion at all. I'm sure the wrist is working to absorb the force, but it is doing it naturally and unobtrusively, simply by being held in a fairly neutral relaxed position. Yes, you see a bit more of it with Ron Carter, but on the other hand you don't see much arm and shoulder pull, so I suspect he is using the wrist wave motion to generate force rather than to absorb it. It works for him, obviously, but you couldn't guarantee success for your students!
I can see that the exaggerated wave could be a good starting point for students with a stiff right arm, but my concern is that it looks very similar, in the end result, to the very damaging technique used by bass guitar switchers who try to play the double bass as they played the guitar, from the fingers, with both wrists curled!
Of course the wave technique you are talking about is completely different, because it is used to absorb rather than generate energy - would it be worth explaining the difference in a later instalment?
I can see that the exaggerated wave could be a good starting point for students with a stiff right arm, but my concern is that it looks very similar, in the end result, to the very damaging technique used by bass guitar switchers who try to play the double bass as they played the guitar, from the fingers, with both wrists curled!
Of course the wave technique you are talking about is completely different, because it is used to absorb rather than generate energy - would it be worth explaining the difference in a later instalment?
It's a good point, although I don't see the parallel to the bass guitar analogy in what I'm doing in the video. The wrist wave is a bit exaggerated for teaching purposes in the video, but I think it's still valid. It's the kind of thing that I see as a larger motion at slower tempos that gets smaller as the tempo goes up. By the time you get to medium up, you barely see it, but it's still there. Since the next video (in progress) is about dividing the right arm stroke, I hope it will address your concerns.
nick-
There are varying degrees of the movement of the wrist. Ray's school uses a lot of heavy arm and forearm muscle but the wrist is not stiff. If you'd like to see this up close and personal, get a lesson with the yoda of jazz, Mr. John Clayton.
Regarding shoulder usage- this is inefficient. Just like a good bow arm, the whole assembly shoulder down should be loose and relaxed. Guastafeste talks about how the arm should be heavy to the point that it feels as if you can't lift it. This is where all the power comes from- gravity. You can fight it, but you won't win.
This is clearly Chris's thread but if I might interject... Something a lot of guys find helpful is the feeling of the arm falling off of the string. In reality we're not really pulling the string; we're lifting the arm, putting it in place, and just letting nature do its thing.
There are varying degrees of the movement of the wrist. Ray's school uses a lot of heavy arm and forearm muscle but the wrist is not stiff. If you'd like to see this up close and personal, get a lesson with the yoda of jazz, Mr. John Clayton.
Regarding shoulder usage- this is inefficient. Just like a good bow arm, the whole assembly shoulder down should be loose and relaxed. Guastafeste talks about how the arm should be heavy to the point that it feels as if you can't lift it. This is where all the power comes from- gravity. You can fight it, but you won't win.
This is clearly Chris's thread but if I might interject... Something a lot of guys find helpful is the feeling of the arm falling off of the string. In reality we're not really pulling the string; we're lifting the arm, putting it in place, and just letting nature do its thing.
Yes, that's how I think of it, with any effort being soaked up and compensated for by a loose assembly not only up the arm but through the shoulders and down the back into the hips. So my question is, with all this easy motion, why do we need an exaggerated wave motion in the wrist? I don't need to use one, and nor do many other bassists. And I!m all for keeping unnecessary motion to an absolute minimum! it starts to look a bit like the Moeller extravagances at the drumkit, which some drummers love and some hate. Perhaps the wrist wave divides bassists in the same way?
The only answers I have to the above are the following:
- I use the wave as a teaching aid because I use it in my playing. I learned it from two of my mentors - Rufus Reid and Lynn Seaton - who are now colleagues that I teach with twice a year at the Aebersold workshops each summer.
- Like most teaching aids, it is exaggerated in the demonstration phase, and much more subtle or even imperceptible in real time. Because it can be subtle in real life, I exaggerate it when teaching to make students aware of it. It's really just one way of urging students to keep their wrist flexible and let it flow as part of the arm.
- The information in this video is only one way of doing and teaching things. I think every good teacher teaches what he/she knows and does. It may not be for everyone, but it just as certainly isn't being put forth in an effort to disparage other ways of playing or to generate controversy.
Again, I hope the next video will help put the wave in better context. I just recorded the intro clip, which includes a playing example, and I have to look pretty hard to see the wave in the lines I'm playing, although I know it's there because I can feel it.
- I use the wave as a teaching aid because I use it in my playing. I learned it from two of my mentors - Rufus Reid and Lynn Seaton - who are now colleagues that I teach with twice a year at the Aebersold workshops each summer.
- Like most teaching aids, it is exaggerated in the demonstration phase, and much more subtle or even imperceptible in real time. Because it can be subtle in real life, I exaggerate it when teaching to make students aware of it. It's really just one way of urging students to keep their wrist flexible and let it flow as part of the arm.
- The information in this video is only one way of doing and teaching things. I think every good teacher teaches what he/she knows and does. It may not be for everyone, but it just as certainly isn't being put forth in an effort to disparage other ways of playing or to generate controversy.
Again, I hope the next video will help put the wave in better context. I just recorded the intro clip, which includes a playing example, and I have to look pretty hard to see the wave in the lines I'm playing, although I know it's there because I can feel it.
Thanks Chris, that's a great answer! No disparagement taken, I assure you. I'm just fascinated by different playing and teaching techniques and keen to discuss. I love a bit of controversy, anyway. Will look forward to the next instalment - keep up the good work!
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Subscribed. 
While I understand and appreciate the need for opening credits, I really wanted to be able to watch your hands while listening to you play "I Don't Know What Love Is;" perhaps you could show that footage at the end of the video.
I really appreciate the disciplined consistency of your delivery; you talk like you write, in a succinct, straightforward, manner that maximizes understandability.
Looking forward to future installments!
While I understand and appreciate the need for opening credits, I really wanted to be able to watch your hands while listening to you play "I Don't Know What Love Is;" perhaps you could show that footage at the end of the video.
I really appreciate the disciplined consistency of your delivery; you talk like you write, in a succinct, straightforward, manner that maximizes understandability.
Looking forward to future installments!
Sorry about that - the intro music was recorded audio only, and will be a part of each installment during the credit sections. However, the second installment begins with a short playing excerpt, as several people have mentioned the need for this in the videos.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Subscribed.
While I understand and appreciate the need for opening credits, I really wanted to be able to watch your hands while listening to you play "You Don't Know What Love Is;" perhaps you could show that footage at the end of the video.
Sorry. Picky and corrected, kindly so.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Thanks for having my back, PeeDub; brain fart.
Yer welcome.
All in all, IMO, one of the most important points in the vid is DURRL's ability to dig in to the board. Gotsum guys around Denver who got chops up the yeng-yang, but they play their amps, not the bass. DURRL plays the ****ing bass.......we all should do that. (kindly).
Paul-
AGREED. In my often not so humble opinion, if you play something with an amp that you wouldn't or couldn't play acoustically, it's disingenuous at best. Yes, technology and the evolution of playing yadda yadda, but it seems that the *actual* evolution of our instrument is swinging the pendulum back towards people playing ACOUSTIC bass again. Thank God. Thanks also to fantastic players like my dear friend Marco Panascia for playing their @sses off on some gigs with no amp at all.
Chris references Mr. Seaton above. He was at the cutting edge of bringing back real bread and butter bass playing without compromising technique many many years ago. I remember hearing him play with a mic and a polytone at a clinic at IU and thinking that we had all collectively lost our way in this world, with the meow meow over-amplified fishman pickup decades...
AGREED. In my often not so humble opinion, if you play something with an amp that you wouldn't or couldn't play acoustically, it's disingenuous at best. Yes, technology and the evolution of playing yadda yadda, but it seems that the *actual* evolution of our instrument is swinging the pendulum back towards people playing ACOUSTIC bass again. Thank God. Thanks also to fantastic players like my dear friend Marco Panascia for playing their @sses off on some gigs with no amp at all.
Chris references Mr. Seaton above. He was at the cutting edge of bringing back real bread and butter bass playing without compromising technique many many years ago. I remember hearing him play with a mic and a polytone at a clinic at IU and thinking that we had all collectively lost our way in this world, with the meow meow over-amplified fishman pickup decades...
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
