I've been tuning this way for about four years now, and have occasionally flirted with C# standard as well. I don't see myself going back to standard; I love the range and the tone downtuning gives me,
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
New standard tuning (?), one whole-step down on all strings.
- Thread starter Bass4LifeRS
- Start date
I used DGCF tuning for about eight years. Initially, it was for a band where the guitar player tuned down a whole step. Once I got used to it, I liked having the two extra low notes, so I stuck with DGCF through a bunch of other bands. It mostly worked, but there were always a couple of songs where I needed an open E or A, so I had two basses at every rehearsal and gig. Then, I got into a band where the guitarist wanted me to tune Eb standard, with some songs in drop C#. At that point, I got a 5-string and haven't looked back.
But DGCF was fun, especially after I discovered La Bella's DGCF set of Hard Rockin' Steels -- great strings.
But DGCF was fun, especially after I discovered La Bella's DGCF set of Hard Rockin' Steels -- great strings.
I played my 5-string down a whole step down on every string when playing in a standard tuning band, influenced by Coldplay, U2, etc. Song structures based around open chords like D, C, and G opened up allowing for unconventional positions/patterns on the bass. Songs in A were fun. I liked it. The band did not mind. Though the next band I tried it with, lead by a shred-head guitard, had less tolerance for this gimmick.
I also found I liked the E voiced at the 2nd fret, with the option of a pickup open-D easily available.
I also found I liked the E voiced at the 2nd fret, with the option of a pickup open-D easily available.
This is an interesting tuning (which I haven't tried) but it's a GUITAR tuning! And furthermore the lowest four strings are tuned like a cello (in fifths). Hence this is NOT what we are discussing here. Just as a guitard comment, let me say that the true test of this "new standard" tuning would be how many chords can be reached with it. My experience with chords on a banjo tuned in fifths is that there is going to be some SERIOUS finger stretching going on with this tuning! But enough! back to bass.
The proposed "new standard" for bass is simply standard tuning tuned down a whole step (two 1/2 steps = one whole step) on each string.
Let me say that 5 string basses "float my boat". So I'm not really enthused about this, but we can discuss pros and cons.
The major plus in my book over "drop tuning" is that all patterns and scales remain moveable without change. Basically it's sort of an "inverse capo" kind of effect!
And my long-time gripe on 4 string basses (tuned EADG) is you can't play properly in "horn keys" like Eb. Clearly this tuning solves that long-standing problem and even adds key of D to the list. Since in my playing 5 string low notes below D tend to be more "novelty" notes than actually used much in basslines, this tuning appears to offer a lot toward improving the range of a 4 string bass.
OF course one common "solution" for "low notes" is stringing the bass BEAD. My gripe with that is that I THOUGHT I wasn't using the G string at all but once I went BEAD I found out I WAS! Hence limited high notes were the problem with BEAD in my case. With this new tuning, most of the high range remains as opposed to ripping off a whole string. THAT has lots of promise as a better solution than BEAD.
Which leads us to another way of looking at this "new standard" tuning: Namely that you are tuning BEAD and tuning all strings UP 1 1/2 steps! So you get a 5 string set use the BEAD strings and tune UP 1.5 steps! Now if THAT doesn't solve your "floppy B string problem" NOTHING WILL! It's basically like a super long scale bass without the longer scale to deal with!
So my bottom line is that I see a LOT of advantages to going with this "new" tuning. Downside, of course, is that it's like playing with a capo where all the notes have moved to new names even though the patterns remain the same. That can be confusing and take some time to get used to I'd imagine.
But as you probably can imagine, my ULTIMATE question would be: Why in the world are 4 strings so sacred that you can't even THINK about having more strings and not have to compromise all over the place on extending the range of your bass?
Or just get a balanced Circle K string set. The one with the gauges .118, .090, .067, .049 would work nicely for DGCF tuning. About 43 pounds of tension per string. Plenty tight but not super stiff.
in a band i play guitar for, we are both in drop C#. makes life easy. i, OTOH, exclusively play 5 and 6 string basses. i try not to retune. every now and then BDADG is used for really obvious drop D riffs (see RATM). and when the song is blatantly in Eb and not root notes, i will tune down a half step to match (see alice in chains). otherwise, i rarely think about it.
was jamming with a guy one time and he switches to an Eb tuned guitar. points to an Eb tuned bass. i said "nah, ive got this." he was confused. im sure he figured it out when i was following note for note.
was jamming with a guy one time and he switches to an Eb tuned guitar. points to an Eb tuned bass. i said "nah, ive got this." he was confused. im sure he figured it out when i was following note for note.
D Standard can obviously be a helpful way to get lower notes while also keeping the same relationship, but essentially it's identical to EADG. Notice the name D Standard, indicating that you're just transposing standard tuning. For something to become a new standard tuning, it would need to make things easier or more logical. D Standard is just lateral progression at best.
In my mind CGDA (one octave below a cello) would be the next move if anything at all. Being that you can do fingerings with one finger per fret on an electric bass, a 5th's tuning like CGDA would allow more flexible positions, with more notes per position, as well as adding both lower and higher notes to the overall range. If you're going to change the standard, CGDA bests D Standard from every angle IMHO. The problem is that it changes technique - runs, fills, and intervals that were easy in 4th's tuning (E or D Standard) become more difficult, but on the other hand, new runs, fills, and different easier interval relationships occur as well. You can never have your cake and eat it too when you're talking about tuning systems.
There's always trade-offs in either creating a standard or changing a standard. This is why I'm just fine with parking it on good old EADG.
In my mind CGDA (one octave below a cello) would be the next move if anything at all. Being that you can do fingerings with one finger per fret on an electric bass, a 5th's tuning like CGDA would allow more flexible positions, with more notes per position, as well as adding both lower and higher notes to the overall range. If you're going to change the standard, CGDA bests D Standard from every angle IMHO. The problem is that it changes technique - runs, fills, and intervals that were easy in 4th's tuning (E or D Standard) become more difficult, but on the other hand, new runs, fills, and different easier interval relationships occur as well. You can never have your cake and eat it too when you're talking about tuning systems.
There's always trade-offs in either creating a standard or changing a standard. This is why I'm just fine with parking it on good old EADG.
Bassben that was ineffably inane, quite wonderful. But on the subject of the OP, I must say that EADG is standard tuning for a reason. If DGEF was universally better it would already be standard tuning.
You can tune any way you want... but you must know what the notes are when you are tuned however you are tuned... Playing in your "Band" it is not as important as say at a Jam session...
A couple of weeks ago I went to a jam session and the guitar player was tuned down a minor 3rd (Db)... No problem, but when we called a tune in Bb he did not know where to play!
I tune my P-Bass Eb Ab Db Gb, when someone calls something in Bb I need to play it at the B position to match their Bb...
There is one guitar player I work with who tunes in Eb as well. But when he calls out tunes in Bb he really means A but he is playing them in his Bb position! So it can be confusing...
Many different string makers now make heavier gauge strings that will work great for drop tuning. Depending on how you want to tune different gauges will work better for you than others.
On a side note - I was playing the other day with this keyboard player who transposes his keyboard so he can play in C on every tune... If I looked at him playing I would start playing in C thinking I was in the wrong key! I stopped paying attention to what he was playing after I did that a couple of times on a turn around...
A couple of weeks ago I went to a jam session and the guitar player was tuned down a minor 3rd (Db)... No problem, but when we called a tune in Bb he did not know where to play!
I tune my P-Bass Eb Ab Db Gb, when someone calls something in Bb I need to play it at the B position to match their Bb...
There is one guitar player I work with who tunes in Eb as well. But when he calls out tunes in Bb he really means A but he is playing them in his Bb position! So it can be confusing...
Many different string makers now make heavier gauge strings that will work great for drop tuning. Depending on how you want to tune different gauges will work better for you than others.
On a side note - I was playing the other day with this keyboard player who transposes his keyboard so he can play in C on every tune... If I looked at him playing I would start playing in C thinking I was in the wrong key! I stopped paying attention to what he was playing after I did that a couple of times on a turn around...
father of fires
Commercial User
I was commenting on the title of the thread which used a phrase that has been around for 25 years. I was hoping to open the thread and be treated with a discussion on tuning in fifths down a whole step. But I was not and I was sad
Do whatever ya want that fits what you're playing, I say.
I got rid of my five strings and currently play fours tuned E-A-D-G, Bb-Eb-Ab-Db and (low) A-D-G-C.
If you're playing a bunch of stuff that fits with Drop D, do that. If you want to tune like a cello, do that. Doesn't really matter as long as you can hit the note you want and make it sound good right?
I got rid of my five strings and currently play fours tuned E-A-D-G, Bb-Eb-Ab-Db and (low) A-D-G-C.
If you're playing a bunch of stuff that fits with Drop D, do that. If you want to tune like a cello, do that. Doesn't really matter as long as you can hit the note you want and make it sound good right?
In my mind CGDA (one octave below a cello) would be the next move if anything at all. Being that you can do fingerings with one finger per fret on an electric bass, a 5th's tuning like CGDA would allow more flexible positions, with more notes per position, as well as adding both lower and higher notes to the overall range. If you're going to change the standard, CGDA bests D Standard from every angle IMHO. The problem is that it changes technique - runs, fills, and intervals that were easy in 4th's tuning (E or D Standard) become more difficult, but on the other hand, new runs, fills, and different easier interval relationships occur as well. You can never have your cake and eat it too when you're talking about tuning systems.
There was another thread recently where tuning in fifths was mentioned. It certainly works spectacularly well for cellos and the other short scale members of the violin family. I have to wonder why the DB then is tuned in fourths. The "paternity" of the DB apparently is questionable. Some feel it is actually a viol by birth instead of a violin. The viols were tuned in fourths (except for the middle interval) so the DB is too goes that argument, in part. Is that the reason the DB is tuned in fourths or is it tuned in fourths because fiths are a bit impractical for rapid fingering on a ~43 inch scale length? It is a critical question for us because even short scale electric basses have longer scale lengths than cellos. We could be in territory where fifths are just too wide.
If you are willing to consider tuning to a wider interval than fourths you might want to try/consider tuning to flatted fifths as well as fifths. A flatted fifth tuning will keep your normal playing patterns more compact than a fifth tuning though still not as compact as fourths. It will still give you a pretty wide range from four strings too. If you want to start on the low B you would tune BFBF. If you would prefer to keep the G string you would tune C#GC#G. As you can see, since a flatted fifth divides the octave in half you end up with only two different string pitches which would be a disadvantage to those of you who find something magical about open strings and would like to have at least four different open pitches available.
So one night on a lark I took my Jazz bass with its standard EADG strings and just tuned it down to BFBF and then BEAD. Sounds horrible of course but it will make the correct pitches (more or less, you have to ignore the intonation problems). I only gave each of them a few minutes of playing time but it was enough to tell me that I would rather tune in fourths. If you are reading this thread and want a quick, cheap way to try the tunings you see mentioned, this technique will tell you a lot about how they will work for you. Just remember that it will tell you nothing about how the tunings will sound but with the right strings that should not be a problem. If you like the way a new tuning works for you then you can invest in the strings to make it sound right.
Ken
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Bassic Playing, your post adumbrates the assumption that you have never played any music in Eb and had to go UP an octave for that note you really wanted to go DOWN to.
"Standard" just means most people use it which means that it USED to work better for music people USED to play! But music is not static. There is no such thing as "best" any more than there is for vehicles. You have to say "best for what"? Do you want a vehicle to haul gravel or pick up hot chicks? Usually the same car won't do both. So for a "new standard" one has to ask the question what works better for what people are playing NOW.
My personal view is that more and more current music of various types is using scales, keys and down-tunings that could make good use of a couple lower notes. (hence the growing popularity of 5 string basses)
