Double Bass New to amplifying upright - strange tone from K&K piezo

[eadg52]

Hi Folks, I'm new to the board and I'm wondering if anyone can help sort a small problem with the tone on my new K&K Bassmax piezo (I'm also new to upright playing although I did learn to play on one 40 years back until moving to bass guitar). I fitted the K&K with a Pure pre-amp (from the esteemed Bob Gollihur btw) without too much trouble but on plugging in for the first time I noticed the tone has a large 'slapping' type, middly sound to it when plucking the strings, almost like the attack from the string is too much for the amp (Ashdown ABM 2x10 combo) although I've set the output from the pre to almost the minimum available and the input gain on the amp is regsitering as normal. The level from the lower strings strings also seem to be much higher than the top two. Any ideas on what may be happening here anyone?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

[jimclark68]

Hi 52,

I've used a Bassmax for several years now with different combinations of preamps and amps. I first used a K&K Pure Preamp and eventually switched to a Fishman Platinum preamp. The Fishman was miles ahead of the K&K and brought out the best in the Bassmax. I also struggle with the low-end boom of the Bassmax, and the filters on the Fishman tamed it the best. When I was using the Fishman, I bypassed the EQ of the Ashdown I had at the time and ran it directly into the return jack and the sound was great. The flexibility of the Fishman allowed me to dial in my sound in a variety of applications (running into an amp, direct into a PA, etc.) while using the Bassmax, which the Pure Pre didn't really allow me to do. So give some thought to your preamp, assuming that it's not a setup issue with you bass, your strings, or any other extraneous variables.

 

[eadg52]

Hi Jim,

Much obliged for the advice, it's already made a big difference to the tone whilst lessening the 'thump' that was happening. I never thought of using the return imput other than for effects. I hardly used any eq on the pre before as it made things worse but now it seems much more effective although I still only use a tad of bass and treble. I can't wait for a big band gig I have on Monday to try it out in a proper situation.
No issues with the set up btw, the action is slightly lower than standard with no buzzing but giving a slight growl out the Helicore Hybrids I've had fitted.

Steve

 

[drurb]

Hi Folks, I'm new to the board and I'm wondering if anyone can help sort a small problem with the tone on my new K&K Bassmax piezo (I'm also new to upright playing although I did learn to play on one 40 years back until moving to bass guitar). I fitted the K&K with a Pure pre-amp (from the esteemed Bob Gollihur btw) without too much trouble but on plugging in for the first time I noticed the tone has a large 'slapping' type, middly sound to it when plucking the strings, almost like the attack from the string is too much for the amp (Ashdown ABM 2x10 combo) although I've set the output from the pre to almost the minimum available and the input gain on the amp is regsitering as normal. The level from the lower strings strings also seem to be much higher than the top two. Any ideas on what may be happening here anyone?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Here's my $0.02. I never did like the design of the K&K pre-amps. They are prone to overload with signals of normal levels. For me, it was always a delicate dance between the external level control (basically a resistive attenuator) and the internal control that adjusts the gain of the op amp. As one who has designed op-amp circuits, I judged the K&K design to leave much to be desired.

With regard to the BassMax, I found it to be a "hot" pickup with a very pronounced midrange. I never did like the way any of my basses sounded with it. I solved that one by buying a Rev. Solo pickup. That produced a night and day difference.

Now, you may be thinking, "Hey, I asked for help with my K&K, I didn't ask what else I should buy." That would be fair enough but you seem to be less than thrilled with the response of the K&K and your experience squares with mine. You can either fight it with EQ forever or spend the $129 on a Rev. Solo and be done with it. Yes, the Rev. Solo requires careful fitting but, in my experience, once you do take care to do it right, you are greatly rewarded. As always, YMMV.

 

[jimclark68]

To add a bit more with Drurb's comments in mind, I didn't find the K&K pre to be overly hot, although I can't speak in electronics terms, only a subjective opinion. I did have to turn the pre gain (the little white button inside the unit) all the way down, which I believe you said that you have done. I just found that the K&K was kind of blah, and beyond impedence matching and some basic eq, it just didn't do much. The pickup itself is indeed very hot, although I have experienced balance issues with hot lows and not so much hot mids. On my previous bass, moving the pickup to the G side of the bridge helped tremendously; on my current bass the difference is not as great. I tend to play in louder situations, so having a hot pickup is not as much an issue.

 

[eadg52]

All opinions are most welcome, I've got some helpful food for thought to be going on with thanks to them. I'll bear in mind the idea of moving the piezo to the G side... could make sense for what I think Drurb is (right) in saying how hot the Bassmax is.

Steve

 

[Ken Lloyd]

I have the older model Revolution Solo pickup, the one they sold earlier this year. To address the difference in tone between unamplified (where I have strong tone playing up high on the D and G strings) and amplified (RS1 to Fishman Pro EQ to amp where I was losing a lot of the D and G volume and tone), I moved the RS1 to the G side of the bridge. Much better volume balance across the strings and fingerboard. YMMV.

All opinions are most welcome, I've got some helpful food for thought to be going on with thanks to them. I'll bear in mind the idea of moving the piezo to the G side... could make sense for what I think Drurb is (right) in saying how hot the Bassmax is.

Steve

 

[JonB]

Good fit is crucial to getting the best sound from this pickup.
If I read your description right, it may be too tight and/or not contacting the bridge surfaces completely. A better preamp will help, too. Also, some of that "middly" sound you're hearing is piezo honk - just one of those things we have to put up with.
As for your balance issue, what I finally did was put a second bass max on the G side and wired them together. (in phase). That gave me better coverage.
If you're going to spend more money though, I'd recommend Revolution Solo. It's just better, in my opinion.

 

[drurb]

Good fit is crucial to getting the best sound from this pickup.
If I read your description right, it may be too tight and/or not contacting the bridge surfaces completely. A better preamp will help, too. Also, some of that "middly" sound you're hearing is piezo honk - just one of those things we have to put up with.
As for your balance issue, what I finally did was put a second bass max on the G side and wired them together. (in phase). That gave me better coverage.
If you're going to spend more money though, I'd recommend Revolution Solo. It's just better, in my opinion.

..and the Rev. Solo does not have piezo honk. So, if you buy one, that is not something up with which you must put.

 

[Bob Gollihur]

My Bass Max does not honk, either. I'll be playing a local benefit Saturday 2-6, come out and hear it direct through a PA.