NEW WAL WEBSITE UP AND RUNNING!

[john turner]

Of course, the reverse, "I have no experience with _________ but its the best thing since sliced bread I would definately buy one" is also going on here.

and that's fine - that's an important element in the development of every musician that i've ever met. that's why musicians have endorsements - to encourage their fans to try the gear they use.

if this were a thread discussing the pros and cons of wals, then i'd hope those folks who have owned the instruments before, and have good and bad things to say about them, would be great, would participate, and share their experiences, warts and all.

but this is a fan thread, a "holy cow they're back online and making basses" thread about a popular and unique builder, and as such, i think it's ok for a little fanboi-ish stuff to go on here unchallenged.

again, we have "pros and cons of pbasses" threads and we have "i love my pbass" threads. one is appropriate to share negative observations and experiences, while in the other such posts come off as sorta tacky.

 

[Marlat]

and that's fine - that's an important element in the development of every musician that i've ever met. that's why musicians have endorsements - to encourage their fans to try the gear they use.

if this were a thread discussing the pros and cons of wals, then i'd hope those folks who have owned the instruments before, and have good and bad things to say about them, would be great, would participate, and share their experiences, warts and all.

but this is a fan thread, a "holy cow they're back online and making basses" thread about a popular and unique builder, and as such, i think it's ok for a little fanboi-ish stuff to go on here unchallenged.

again, we have "pros and cons of pbasses" threads and we have "i love my pbass" threads. one is appropriate to share negative observations and experiences, while in the other such posts come off as sorta tacky.

Fair enough. Given the brevity of the OP I just assumed this thread was about the now re-availabiliy of Wals and their pricing. I don't think its out of the ordinary to discuss the merits of that pricing in a thread where its brought up in the OP. OTOH I would see why that was inappropriate if the thread was the Wal Bass Fan Club thread (which I believe there is already one).

 

[john turner]

I'm not saying they're made with a CNC... no proof of that. But, for example, necks are shaped by a machine. You can see pics of that on Hiscock's book "Build your own electric guitar". Bodies could even be made with a CNC but we don't know it so we won't say that.
I'm not "against" Wal basses. I've owned a few and a couple of them were very nice...
Nothing against their pickups/electronics package neither... but "physically" they aren't that different from a good quality Fender-style bass IMHO.

see, i've never played a fender that could compare to a wal, and i'm far from a fanboi - look at my gear. maybe a fender custom shop instrument - i've played a few at namm shows and they had a similar vibe, although they lacked the electronics, which frankly are what make a wal unique. -shrug-. on the other hand, you've owned wals, so if you think they are not really much more than the average fender, i'll defer to your greater experience with the instruments. all i could say is you've either gotten some sweet fenders or some crappy wals pass through your hands (j/k).

As I said, no flame intended... just wanted to share my vision. And I'm really happy to see that WAL basses are still alive. If you played one and you liked it - good for you! but I find a bit odd the fact that most peoples keep drooling on stuff they could even find unattractive only based on forums' buzz.
That said, I hope the new Wal production will bring luck to the new owner of the brand.

i don't think anyone here is drooling based on forum buzz at all. i know i'm not. i've spent many hours playing wals, and i'm also pretty experienced at picking up new, exotic instruments and determining whether i like them or not, quickly and decisively.

as for the folks that have never played one, but are jonesing to try, and are now excited for the possibility, again i say that's a great thing, even if the reason they want to play one is only because their musical hero does. that's an essential element of a musician's development, where an aspiring player wants to emulate their heroes.

if some sixteen year old kid wants to try a wal because justin chancellor plays one and the kid is a tool fan, that's no worse than someone wanting to buy a pbass because he's an iron maiden fan or a james jameson fan, or a slash fan wanting to play a les paul. folks dig these musicians enough to emulate them for a reason - the tone and playing speaks to them, resonates sufficiently with them that they want to try it for themselves. there's nothing wrong with that, and as they develop, they grow from these starting points to hopefully find their own voice one day. i know i did - all i wanted when i started was a ric 4001 because all i wanted to do back then was play rush songs. i have certainly evolved as a player over the past 25 years from there, and that starting point didn't hurt me at all, helped me in fact, to develop my own vision. if i had to start from scratch, who knows if i'd even still be playing.

 

[john turner]

Fair enough. Given the brevity of the OP I just assumed this thread was about the now re-availabiliy of Wals and their pricing. I don't think its out of the ordinary to discuss the merits of that pricing in a thread where its brought up in the OP. OTOH I would see why that was inappropriate if the thread was the Wal Bass Fan Club thread (which I believe there is already one).

i can see that the pricing would be an issue for discussion, and valid in this thread. so lets discuss that.

is £3200 pounds really that exhorbitant a price for a custom instrument? not using dollars, using pounds, since the exchange rate and all that comes into play, and because, ultimately, the instruments are built by folks who use pounds to buy their groceries. what are sei or overwater basses going for now? i know that ritters are about that much, in euros, and i consider wals on par with ritters as far as the nature of the instrument manufacture.

i also know that comparable instruments in the u.s. are comparably priced - custom alembics and foderas and many others can be substantially more. all of my conklin single neck instruments cost me approx $3500 bucks a piece, give or take, when i got em, and that was 8+ years ago (and i was getting a big discount) - i know that they are more now, since bill is better known and his instruments are in more demand, he's much busier and he's charging more too.

if you divide the money the instrument costs by the labor involved along with the machinery, materials, and the value of the expertise going into the build of the instrument, it's not that exhorbitant at all. shoot, can barely get any decent work done on your house for that much money, and that's with relatively minimally skilled labor involved, at least compared to the guy building a bass.

 

[john turner]

this all begs the question of how "authentic" this new incarnation is going to be. in other words, are the folks building these instruments qualified to make them in the spirit of the originals? i know paul herman worked at wal for a long time when pete was in charge - how many folks are working with him in the new shop, and did any of them also work at the original (waller) wal or the pete stevens-helmed company?

i guess pete stevens gave these guys his stamp of approval, so that's a good thing. i always got the impression that he'd rather let the company retire with him than have the name be corrupted in any way.

 

[Rusty Chainsaw]

i can see that the pricing would be an issue for discussion, and valid in this thread. so lets discuss that.

is £3200 pounds really that exhorbitant a price for a custom instrument? not using dollars, using pounds, since the exchange rate and all that comes into play, and because, ultimately, the instruments are built by folks who use pounds to buy their groceries. what are sei or overwater basses going for now? i know that ritters are about that much, in euros, and i consider wals on par with ritters as far as the nature of the instrument manufacture.

i also know that comparable instruments in the u.s. are comparably priced - custom alembics and foderas and many others can be substantially more. all of my conklin single neck instruments cost me approx $3500 bucks a piece, give or take, when i got em, and that was 8+ years ago (and i was getting a big discount) - i know that they are more now, since bill is better known and his instruments are in more demand, he's much busier and he's charging more too.

if you divide the money the instrument costs by the labor involved along with the machinery, materials, and the value of the expertise going into the build of the instrument, it's not that exhorbitant at all. shoot, can barely get any decent work done on your house for that much money, and that's with relatively minimally skilled labor involved, at least compared to the guy building a bass.

I'd say the majority of UK-based luthiers offer instruments significantly cheaper than £3200, but they can easily be specced up to that sort of price. For example, the cheapest Seis now come in at about £1800, and, once you've added in extra options, more strings, nicer woods, inlays, non-off-the-shelf pickups and electronics, etc, the price can easily exceed £3200.

Comparing like-for-like though (ie, custom builders who use bespoke electronics, etc), the new Wals still come in kinda expensive. GBs, ACGs, Overwaters, Statii, etc, all of which use custom pickups and electronics, are still somewhat cheaper than the new Wals (significantly so in the case of ACG - who also use a filter-based preamp - and some Statii). But still, none of them sound like a Wal, and having that tone, look and feel is worth the premium to those who must have it.

What's more, I'd imagine the £3200 base price will be for a Mk1 4-string - there'll probably be a fairly considerable upcharge for more strings, etc.

 

[pjmuck]

Amen, John. The price of a Wal is certainly no worse than any other boutique custom builder today, and there's far less snobbery attached to a Wal than certain other companies charging exorbitant prices for their instruments. Hell, when you think boutique, do you even think of Wal? I don't, and I don't feel that Wal carries the stigma and pretension that can go with that staple. I immediately think of Fodera or Alembic, companies who seem to revel in making you believe that they're instruments are above all others. (Not intended to be a knock...alright forget it, I guess it is, LOL). To some players, I suppose they are, but I've played everything under the sun and I currently own many boutique basses - Alembic, Warwick, Pedulla, Spector and Wal included. I love them all for various reasons, but I would keep the Wal above all others if I were forced to part with any of them.

If I had to describe a Wal in one word it would be, "organic". For an active instrument, I've never heard another active bass that sounded so naturally "alive".

 

[tdogg]

http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Gallery?img_id=100&gallery=17 this is what i call starting from scratch!!!

 

[bbocaner]

I'm very happy to know that WAL basses aren't dead... but I feel forced to state two (real and proven) facts:

1) They aren't "hand made". Look at Wilser Ramirez construction topics... seen? Ok: this is NOT how Wals are made. Back in 90s they already had huge machines for shaping necks etc. so they can be called "custom" (built on customer specs) but not "hand made" IMHO;

Not true. I had opportunity to visit Pete's shop back in '06 and see how he worked. At that time, I'd say his instruments were the least mass produced most handmade basses in the world. He did have a machine for cutting the radius into the fingerboard, and a machine that cut all the fret slots at once, but all the carving was totally done by hand. The bodies were cut out by band saw and carved by hand. Hell, he'd finish a couple of basses and call up a machinist and have them make a couple of bridges and a couple of sets of knobs. He'd do all the soldering to make up a set of circuit boards as each instruments was getting finished and he'd wind the pickups himself as well. He'd finish them himself too!

Not that this was totally a good thing... I used to have a mk.2 4-string made in 2005 that was complete junk. The circuit boards were extremely poor quality and constantly had to be repaired. The neck was useless and developed bulges... it had to be planed and refretted several times. The "clear gloss" finish was so cloudy you could barely see the wood underneath. The instruments made in these final years were highly variable!

I've had two pre-88 Wals and they are very nice, but they start to show their age... The very nicest Wal's I've seen are from the 90's when Paul Hermann was working with Pete, which is why I'm so excited that Paul has taken over!! Paul has started on the 5-string fretless mk. 3 I ordered in '06 and I can't wait!

 

[Cliff Bordwell]

http://www.walbasses.co.uk/Gallery?img_id=100&gallery=17 this is what i call starting from scratch!!!

That is a cool picture!

 

[rarbass]

Considering the starting price of almost $5000 US, the Wals do not look like anything special. IMO, there are $3000 basses that look way better.

Do the Wals have a distinctive sound or something that justifies thier price?

From what I heard when Geddy used one, it didn't sound very good at all (to my ears, anyway). However, they must have something special about them to be worth so much and for people around here to be excited about them.

Personally I'd GAS more for a Rickenbacker.

 

[pjmuck]

Well I was mistaken. I opened up the control compartment this morning and discovered that my Wal was made in '91 not '94. Can anybody tell me who's signature is on this inside cover? See pic:

 

[lousybassplayer]

Just to weigh in on the price thing. 3200 GBP is the starting price. Seems silly to fight over whether or not they are worth it when very likely not many will sell at that price. And considering that the people who buy the upgraded ones CHOSE to pay whatever they end up costing over the base price, I would say they obviously are worth it to the purchaser. And ultimately that determines worth, right?

 

[Marlat]

I'd say the majority of UK-based luthiers offer instruments significantly cheaper than £3200, but they can easily be specced up to that sort of price. For example, the cheapest Seis now come in at about £1800, and, once you've added in extra options, more strings, nicer woods, inlays, non-off-the-shelf pickups and electronics, etc, the price can easily exceed £3200.

Comparing like-for-like though (ie, custom builders who use bespoke electronics, etc), the new Wals still come in kinda expensive. GBs, ACGs, Overwaters, Statii, etc, all of which use custom pickups and electronics, are still somewhat cheaper than the new Wals (significantly so in the case of ACG - who also use a filter-based preamp - and some Statii). But still, none of them sound like a Wal, and having that tone, look and feel is worth the premium to those who must have it.

What's more, I'd imagine the £3200 base price will be for a Mk1 4-string - there'll probably be a fairly considerable upcharge for more strings, etc.

+1

I'd say that pricing your entry level model at £3200 is roughly the equivalent of Ritter or Fodera pricing in their relative jurisdictions. Both Ritter and Fodera are significantly above "market rates" for a boutique custom bass. That's not to say that the cost doesn't justify the end product, but simply that they are at the very top end of custom pricing in their markets. Of course, market demand dictates price and I am sure they won't have a problem selling them for £3200 when used ones in the UK go for over £2000 from time to time. To put in in perspective, £3200 is what you would pay for a fully tricked out MTD including all import costs and shipping etc. It would get you a bottom of the line Ritter without the cost of shipping etc or it would get you a bottom of the line Wal not tricked out.

 

[john turner]

+1

I'd say that pricing your entry level model at £3200 is roughly the equivalent of Ritter or Fodera pricing in their relative jurisdictions. Both Ritter and Fodera are significantly above "market rates" for a boutique custom bass. That's not to say that the cost doesn't justify the end product, but simply that they are at the very top end of custom pricing in their markets. Of course, market demand dictates price and I am sure they won't have a problem selling them for £3200 when used ones in the UK go for over £2000 from time to time. To put in in perspective, £3200 is what you would pay for a fully tricked out MTD including all import costs and shipping etc. It would get you a bottom of the line Ritter without the cost of shipping etc or it would get you a bottom of the line Wal not tricked out.

and despite that i'm a very proud and very happy ritter owner, i know that ritter doesn not have the brand name strength that wal does. few boutique/custom companies do, frankly.

 

[Marlat]

and despite that i'm a very proud and very happy ritter owner, i know that ritter doesn not have the brand name strength that wal does. few boutique/custom companies do, frankly.

I don't think either Ritter or Wal is overpriced. How could they be given the demand? However, given my experience with both basses, my profile tells you which ones I choose to purchase. Its not really about brand strength for me, its about how it feels in my hand. I'd rather play an unknown bass that inspired me to play than a bass a famous endorser plays that doesn't agree with me. That said, I appreciate that TB, being an online forum, is about discussing the newest and coolest gear and getting GAS is a natural part of it. However, there seems to be little harm in discussing all the aspects of basses including their pricing and various opinions of them to try and balance out the GAS inducing pictures of new basses!

 

[john turner]

hey, you see which one of the two i also am sporting, right . i was just trying to say that the price, and the demand, is reasonable, and understandable, given the nature of the instruments and their manufacture coupled with the demand, and even more so for wal, since enough pros, in many different genres, sport wals that something about them "has got to be right".

 

[BlackElan]

Well I was mistaken. I opened up the control compartment this morning and discovered that my Wal was made in '91 not '94. Can anybody tell me who's signature is on this inside cover? See pic:

Pete's signature looks like a fish because that is his nickname.

 

[Triad]

Not true. I had opportunity to visit Pete's shop back in '06 and see how he worked. At that time, I'd say his instruments were the least mass produced most handmade basses in the world. He did have a machine for cutting the radius into the fingerboard, and a machine that cut all the fret slots at once, but all the carving was totally done by hand. The bodies were cut out by band saw and carved by hand. Hell, he'd finish a couple of basses and call up a machinist and have them make a couple of bridges and a couple of sets of knobs. He'd do all the soldering to make up a set of circuit boards as each instruments was getting finished and he'd wind the pickups himself as well. He'd finish them himself too!

I guess Hiscocks had some reason to put a photoshop modified picture with the neck of a Wal and a huge routing machine for neck shaping...
As I said, I'm NOT against their pricing policy. I only say that the guys who never tried these basses shouldn't expect to play like Geddy 'cause these basses aren't made better than a Warmoth but have very powerful pickups and electronics.
As I said, I've owned a couple that played and sounded very well and 3-4 that weren't better than an average $1000 bass. My 2 cents, now I'm gonna leave this topic to Wal fans.

 

[scHism]

I want one, a 4 string MkII w/ walnut facings.. that's it! (even a poor guy is allowed to dream sometimes..)