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No overdrive
- Thread starter jimdgreat1
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- overdrive
When playing punk/hardcore/hard rock/metal I like overdrive/crunch. It really allows me to be heard over the guitards.
When playing with clean, jangly, reverbed guitars, a clean fat bottom tone is what I do.
When playing with clean, jangly, reverbed guitars, a clean fat bottom tone is what I do.
Well you DID say IMO, but I couldn't disagree more. Tubes work awesomely for clean sounds. The dirty tube sound isn't at all what made me a tube snob. What did it for me was the clean sounds. The ability to get dirt was just an occasional bonus.
the way I learned it. was a valve or tube at any gain level adds harmonic content. Harmonics are distortions. Transistors aren't adding harmonic distortion.
whenever I hear or play a tube amp is sound rich at all gain levels. my ss amp sounds dryer at most levels. except when I dime it and turn the timble control the left(bassier eq) but that amp is the except that proves the rule above.
I don't want to give mis information. Just Share.
Depends on the song. I have four basic sounds set on my FX unit for each of my basses. I decide during each song what the best sound for that part of the song is. Most songs, I leave the pedals alone and use one tone all the way through.
- NORMAL - contains a bit of tube drive and barely enough chorus to notice. This sits in with the other instruments well enough that the OD and chorus aren't really very noticeable, IMHO.
- CLEAN - no drive and a little more chorus
- DISTORTED - Signal is more dirty than my "normal" sound, still have some chorus
- NOFX - just what it says. Clean pass-through
The harmonic part is true, according to what I've read about it, but they still can do very clean sounds and/or have flat response.
The output transformer of a tube amp contributes to the sound. One reason why tube and transistor amps sound different. But it's more complicated, the tubes and their interaction with the power supply contribute.
Concerning harmonic distortion, both tubes and transistors add it, but they mix the harmonics differently. The amount of harmonics that a tube generates depends on how hard it is driven. There are less harmonics at lower settings. The tone setting and harmonics go hand in hand. As the amp is cranked, you might find the need to re-adjust the tone to compensate for the harmonic content.
This is explained below. To quote from the tung-sol site:
The harmonic content of an overdriven tube amplifier consists primarily of 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics with some 4th order harmonics. The harmonic content of an overdriven transistor amplifier is primarily 3rd order with suppressed 2nd order harmonics. 2nd and 3rd order harmonics are the most important from a viewpoint of electronic distortion. Musically the 2nd harmonic is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible, yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The 3rd harmonic is a musical 12th. Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong 3rd harmonic makes the tone softer. The odd harmonics (3rd, 5th, etc.) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (2nd, 4th, etc.) produce a "choral" or "singing" sound. Adding a 5th to a strong 3rd harmonic give the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying in character as the amplitude increases. A strong 2nd with a strong 3rd harmonic tends to open the "covered" effect. Adding the 4th and 5th harmonics to this gives an "open horn" character. The higher harmonics, above the 7th, give the tone "edge" or "bite."
The basic cause of the difference in tube and transistor sound is the weighting of harmonic distortion in the amplifier's overload region. Transistor amplifiers exhibit a strong component of 3rd harmonic distortion when driven into overload. This harmonic gives a "covered" sound with a restricted quality. A tube amplifier when overdriven generates a whole spectrum of harmonics. Particularly strong are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th overtones that give the sound a full-bodied "brassy" quality. Combining this reinforcing harmonic content with the compression and high-frequency roll-off of the output transformer in a tube amplifier is why your tube amplifier will "give it up" while your friend's transistor amplifier will sound restricted and harsh.
Ref: Tung-Sol.com:: FAQs Why is there a difference in Tube and Transistor sound?
Concerning harmonic distortion, both tubes and transistors add it, but they mix the harmonics differently. The amount of harmonics that a tube generates depends on how hard it is driven. There are less harmonics at lower settings. The tone setting and harmonics go hand in hand. As the amp is cranked, you might find the need to re-adjust the tone to compensate for the harmonic content.
This is explained below. To quote from the tung-sol site:
The harmonic content of an overdriven tube amplifier consists primarily of 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics with some 4th order harmonics. The harmonic content of an overdriven transistor amplifier is primarily 3rd order with suppressed 2nd order harmonics. 2nd and 3rd order harmonics are the most important from a viewpoint of electronic distortion. Musically the 2nd harmonic is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible, yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The 3rd harmonic is a musical 12th. Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong 3rd harmonic makes the tone softer. The odd harmonics (3rd, 5th, etc.) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (2nd, 4th, etc.) produce a "choral" or "singing" sound. Adding a 5th to a strong 3rd harmonic give the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying in character as the amplitude increases. A strong 2nd with a strong 3rd harmonic tends to open the "covered" effect. Adding the 4th and 5th harmonics to this gives an "open horn" character. The higher harmonics, above the 7th, give the tone "edge" or "bite."
The basic cause of the difference in tube and transistor sound is the weighting of harmonic distortion in the amplifier's overload region. Transistor amplifiers exhibit a strong component of 3rd harmonic distortion when driven into overload. This harmonic gives a "covered" sound with a restricted quality. A tube amplifier when overdriven generates a whole spectrum of harmonics. Particularly strong are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th overtones that give the sound a full-bodied "brassy" quality. Combining this reinforcing harmonic content with the compression and high-frequency roll-off of the output transformer in a tube amplifier is why your tube amplifier will "give it up" while your friend's transistor amplifier will sound restricted and harsh.
Ref: Tung-Sol.com:: FAQs Why is there a difference in Tube and Transistor sound?
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Jimmy we'll call it as a perceived Flat and Cleanish tone during a low gain setting depending on the head room, because of the harmonic.
I actually like this explanation. I do take it as tungsol selling material, but it very well delivered.
Most Stuff I learned about amps comes from Dave Funk.
I actually add an even harmonic with my FEA Growler.
the main difference to me in tubes and transistor is the freq of the upper mid. and the tightness of the low end
Guess I can't argue that on a scientific level. I find it hard to care enough to differentiate, though.
Mr. Foxen
Commercial User
I actually prefer a cleaner tone with over driven guitars. I've recorded both ways and for some reason the cleaner tone sounds better to me. Heavy OD guitar and bass together just doesn't cut it. But that's just me. I am however playing through a cranked all tube amp so it's not totally clean.
the whole idea of a solidstate amp is having an amp that won't over heat, remains cleanish, and stay consistent. we all know transistors loads can distort. usually you'll have to put another gain level into the amp before that happens. my playing style on a passive bass.. clips amps all the time and my playing to me is a whole 'nother gain level. but most players don't do that. so that's why I say ss is a cleaner amp than tube. I don't mean to be a douche bag. I think I also look at it from a guitarist point of view more than a bass player. IMO TUBE is the way to go for most rock, punk, and metal. It's the standard tone. I went solidstate. because I like the 360 more than the svt. IMO most of todays music is trying to replicate what's come before. Bassist are different than guitarist because we're always looking for new ways to make our old basses sound better. where most guitarist are stuck in a grave with inferior amps. compare an OLD AMPEG and an OLD MARSHAL. there is defiant a quality difference.
Mr. Foxen
Commercial User
Loads of solid state amps have distortion settings. Shoots that assumption right down. Had it since the Acoustic 360, probably earlier, that is just a standout. Tone isn't down to valve or SS, its down to what is done with it. If anything SS has more options.
thank you for the setup Jimmy- "Yes they(the guitarist) playing a Marshall- are buried under the loudness of an Ampeg bass amp or anything over a 50 watt amp. And crying Please turn down!"
any questions? I did exaggerate the last part about 50 watts. it's more like anything over 10 watts. IMO or experience. most of my Guitarist have been criers. So I just drown them out.
