Indeed it does. This kind of thing is why my cars are 22 and 13 years old, respectively. But they run fine, and you know they are clean!
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Double Bass Noble tube preamp
- Thread starter bassmanbrent
- Start date
Not yet. The website says 10 weeks from order to delivery, and I think they mean it! But no worries...the current rig has been plenty good enough for the past few years, so I imagine I'll make it through the waiting period. Will report in when it arrives.
My grandmother said that "something worth having is worth wating for"
the Noble is definitely something worth having.this is from an email that Jack sent me about his Noble Preamp and it's use by upright bassists. Although the Noble isnt made for upright you can see how he has neatly covered that bass in it's design. He kind of confirms my interest in Brad Sarnos Black Box (which I DO want to be first in the chain)
Piezo pickups like to see a very high impedance from the first thing they plug into. I chose 10MΩ input impedance for this reason, so the unit would work well with both electric and piezo basses (and other acoustic instruments). For piezo pickups, a higher input impedance extends the low end bass frequencies. Reducing the input impedance acts like a high pass filter, rolling off the low end. Even the difference between 1MΩ and 10MΩ will be noticeable. Some boxes (like the Sarno) use variable input impedance as a tone control, which is fine as long as that box is always first in the signal chain.
In my case, I intended the Noble DI to mostly be the last box in the chain, for electric players running a pedal board, so I chose to go with a fixed input impedance rather than variable. For piezo pickups and upright bass I suggest using a true bypass pedal tuner in front of the Noble, since the tuner will be out of the circuit when off and thus the instrument will see the input impedance of the next pedal in the chain (10MΩ of the Noble, presumably).
The Noble DI has two tubes because it has a buffered 1/4” output (for driving an amp, power amp, etc). Most other DIs have a “thru jack", which is really just a double input, not an output. Others have a “tube effected” output jack but use solid state circuits to drive it. The Noble audio path is entirely tube from front to back. That’s why there are two tubes.
I designed the EQ controls for electric bass but bass is bass and the upright guys have been really happy with it. Occasionally an acoustic instrument will need some “surgical EQ" to notch out a feedback frequency or resonance, but I think this is best done by the sound engineer at the mix desk, rather than by the player (while he’s supposed to be playing). I think the best gear gets out of the way and just lets you play, without distracting you with a bunch of knobs and switches. So the Noble EQ is simple and broad.
Jack
Piezo pickups like to see a very high impedance from the first thing they plug into. I chose 10MΩ input impedance for this reason, so the unit would work well with both electric and piezo basses (and other acoustic instruments). For piezo pickups, a higher input impedance extends the low end bass frequencies. Reducing the input impedance acts like a high pass filter, rolling off the low end. Even the difference between 1MΩ and 10MΩ will be noticeable. Some boxes (like the Sarno) use variable input impedance as a tone control, which is fine as long as that box is always first in the signal chain.
In my case, I intended the Noble DI to mostly be the last box in the chain, for electric players running a pedal board, so I chose to go with a fixed input impedance rather than variable. For piezo pickups and upright bass I suggest using a true bypass pedal tuner in front of the Noble, since the tuner will be out of the circuit when off and thus the instrument will see the input impedance of the next pedal in the chain (10MΩ of the Noble, presumably).
The Noble DI has two tubes because it has a buffered 1/4” output (for driving an amp, power amp, etc). Most other DIs have a “thru jack", which is really just a double input, not an output. Others have a “tube effected” output jack but use solid state circuits to drive it. The Noble audio path is entirely tube from front to back. That’s why there are two tubes.
I designed the EQ controls for electric bass but bass is bass and the upright guys have been really happy with it. Occasionally an acoustic instrument will need some “surgical EQ" to notch out a feedback frequency or resonance, but I think this is best done by the sound engineer at the mix desk, rather than by the player (while he’s supposed to be playing). I think the best gear gets out of the way and just lets you play, without distracting you with a bunch of knobs and switches. So the Noble EQ is simple and broad.
Jack
Man you guys must be very successful to spring for a $1000 preamp. Amps, pickups, etc are gigging tools. Most of my gigs are in the$100-200 range, so you're talking a few working for nothing to pay for something that might make me sound a little better.
Yeah here's the thing. I do 100 dollar gigs and 75 dollar lessons and if it was about making money I would be doing something else entirely. Playing jazz is a compulsion, people don't do it because they see it as a good way to make a living. The same people, (not sane people) obsess about basses and strings and also about harmony and accompaniment and hearing and listening and a whole host of other obsessions that get them closer to something. I know and respect many musicians who have sacrificed essentially their whole lives to music (and who live monastically in NYC 20 years after I left and moved to the country and had a family) and I deeply respect them and admire their dedication.
Back to electronics, after playing maybe a couple thousand gigs over the past 25 years I can say I love to hear myself in a certain way, but more importantly I hate absolutely hate playing where all of that obsession about getting sheite right comes down to not being able to hear myself the way I want because of sound reenforcement failure. I played with a bassist yesterday on a gig (I played vibes) who is happy to play a Chinese bass thru the same old amp with an underwood and call it a gig....I hired him, I ain't complaining, but it ain't me.
I remember Charlie Haden coming into the Bass room at Cal Arts where we kept our basses (way before Chinese basses mostly old German shop basses) and he said "when are you cats gunna get some decent instruments?" (we thought we had decent instruments) he didn't mean "why don't you lames have quarter million dollar Vuilume's like me?" he meant that at any level there are better choices that are worth the effort to seek out. It was a compliment of sorts, he was saying "you cats are trying to be artists distinguish yourselves, get a sound, "
Cats like Jack of Noble and Brad Sarno are musicians who are also engineers, also obsessives, and part of their obsession is to make gear that solves the problems you face. I love these cats, I really do (@Mike Arnopol has done more for my daily gig happiness then anyone) and I covet the things they make. Mostly I cannot afford them and it takes me ages to get my hands on them and many times I just cant do it (I have never had an extra 700 bucks to try Genslers) but I have over the years converted a lot of old gear into new gear and am super happy I did.
Back to electronics, after playing maybe a couple thousand gigs over the past 25 years I can say I love to hear myself in a certain way, but more importantly I hate absolutely hate playing where all of that obsession about getting sheite right comes down to not being able to hear myself the way I want because of sound reenforcement failure. I played with a bassist yesterday on a gig (I played vibes) who is happy to play a Chinese bass thru the same old amp with an underwood and call it a gig....I hired him, I ain't complaining, but it ain't me.
I remember Charlie Haden coming into the Bass room at Cal Arts where we kept our basses (way before Chinese basses mostly old German shop basses) and he said "when are you cats gunna get some decent instruments?" (we thought we had decent instruments) he didn't mean "why don't you lames have quarter million dollar Vuilume's like me?" he meant that at any level there are better choices that are worth the effort to seek out. It was a compliment of sorts, he was saying "you cats are trying to be artists distinguish yourselves, get a sound, "
Cats like Jack of Noble and Brad Sarno are musicians who are also engineers, also obsessives, and part of their obsession is to make gear that solves the problems you face. I love these cats, I really do (@Mike Arnopol has done more for my daily gig happiness then anyone) and I covet the things they make. Mostly I cannot afford them and it takes me ages to get my hands on them and many times I just cant do it (I have never had an extra 700 bucks to try Genslers) but I have over the years converted a lot of old gear into new gear and am super happy I did.
"I feel like I just went to church..." (said this Atheist.)
Nicely Preached.
Thank You, flatback.
Since I bought my Noble almost three years ago, I've sold off the other stuff I had purchased to get the tone in my head. Very simple now. Bass --> Noble --> powered amp. (Since shooting this photo, I've since removed the 2 pedals between the Noble and tuner.) Wonderful tone. Winnner!
@Ukiah Bass is giving me ideas since i have that very same powered speaker. Never thought of tilting it like that, but now that I see it...
I agree with @flatback above. The way I think of it, I am a teacher by vocation, and a musician by passionate avocation. Fortunately, being a music teacher ties those two things together and allows me to get a little deeper into both than I might otherwise. I am perfectly happy with the thought of playing my $7K bass for the rest of my days because it does everything I need a bass to do very well and is an integral part of my musical persona at this point. The Noble is not something that I need, but I think that when it arrives it will help me enjoy doing the usual stuff that I do with a little more clarity and character. And if it doesn't work out, they tend to retain their value and it could find a good home with someone else.
I agree with @flatback above. The way I think of it, I am a teacher by vocation, and a musician by passionate avocation. Fortunately, being a music teacher ties those two things together and allows me to get a little deeper into both than I might otherwise. I am perfectly happy with the thought of playing my $7K bass for the rest of my days because it does everything I need a bass to do very well and is an integral part of my musical persona at this point. The Noble is not something that I need, but I think that when it arrives it will help me enjoy doing the usual stuff that I do with a little more clarity and character. And if it doesn't work out, they tend to retain their value and it could find a good home with someone else.
Mostly what you heard out in the audience was the FOH mic on one of the greatest basses ever made. He used that GK as his monitor turned down low with a Schertler Stat B. Way back he used a BB and although rough sounding (I just listened to Bop Be where he uses it direct ...that LP is so sick I wanna cry listening to it) I just love it.... I worked for Charlie for a bunch of years while in school and after taking his bass to gigs setting it up and the plexi sometimes doing the sound check with the band. His sound somehow came out of every pore of his body simultaneously...If you try and cop a lick from Charlie, you cant do it. It just opens a whole can of worms: how'd he approach that?What is the arc of the chorus? Where is it going? How does he accent and syncopate using silence? How can a scale fragment sound like a zen koan? It is just too deep to chop up.
"The Noble is not something that I need, but I think that when it arrives it will help me enjoy doing the usual stuff that I do with a little more clarity and character. And if it doesn't work out, they tend to retain their value and it could find a good home with someone else."
It's hard to think of gear this way, but my feelings are the same. While I could have gotten along just fine with the Headway EDB-2, the Grace Felix has such a refined tone palate, barely touching the controls changes the sound. If you look in the TB classifieds, you rarely see a Grace Felix. That tells me that for the most part, the folks that own them, are using them. The Noble is the same kind of gear, it retains it's value because it's got a sensitive, usable EQ. Just my take of course.
It's hard to think of gear this way, but my feelings are the same. While I could have gotten along just fine with the Headway EDB-2, the Grace Felix has such a refined tone palate, barely touching the controls changes the sound. If you look in the TB classifieds, you rarely see a Grace Felix. That tells me that for the most part, the folks that own them, are using them. The Noble is the same kind of gear, it retains it's value because it's got a sensitive, usable EQ. Just my take of course.
I played a gig without the Noble last night just because I didn’t want the extra weight in my backpack.
I started regretting it during sound check, and by the end of the night was vowing to never leave it at home again.
And here I thought I was low maintenance...
I started regretting it during sound check, and by the end of the night was vowing to never leave it at home again.
And here I thought I was low maintenance...
I do. I have one primarily as a BG DI at church. And on secular gigs I’m the type of player who uses an amp for DB as little as possible- either no amp at all or supplementing my acoustic tone.
One week our drummer was out so I used my old Kay. It’s not the best bass and I’m not crazy about my K&K pickup either. (Side note, I’ve since upgraded both). Our church is too big for acoustic only so this week I relied on the P.A. system.
Friends, I already loved my Noble, but it made that old plywood bass with a low grade pickup sound absolutely fantastic! It was a happy surprise because I was only using it because it was what I had.
One week our drummer was out so I used my old Kay. It’s not the best bass and I’m not crazy about my K&K pickup either. (Side note, I’ve since upgraded both). Our church is too big for acoustic only so this week I relied on the P.A. system.
Friends, I already loved my Noble, but it made that old plywood bass with a low grade pickup sound absolutely fantastic! It was a happy surprise because I was only using it because it was what I had.
The Noble finally arrived today and I have been testing it through a PJB CUB. A few first impressions and then I will put it through some gig paces before giving a more in-depth review.
- I don't know what it technically does to the signal from the Full Circle, but what comes out of this thing sounds much more focused, aligned, and clear than the Full Circle signal does without it. It's like driving a car immediately after cleaning the windshield; you can hear details that you couldn't before, even though logically they were all there the whole time.
- I would love to be able to say that it "gets rid of the piezo quack/honk" or whatever that sound is about piezos that we all grimace at. It doesn't do that exactly, but it mixes whatever that ugly frequency is back underneath the surface of the sound so that it doesn't stick out, and instead lets it provide the punch that it's supposed to, but from behind the scenes, so you get to feel the unmistakeable strength of the sound without having to look at an unnaturally straining flexed muscle while doing so. Strong, but smooth and more natural somehow. Yeah, words kind of fail...
- My favorite part is the way the clarity of the high end of the sound enables me to intonate so much more easily and naturally. I'm assuming this must have something to do with the "upper order harmonics/rounder waveform/e=mc2/etc." tech speak that always emerges when tube amps are discussed, but whatever - to paraphrase a favorite old comedy sketch, "your honor, I'm just a bass player". And as a bass player, I can hear intonation much more quickly and clearly through this thing, and I like that.
- Last, I'm using an old trick that I stole from my old mentor Paul Warburton and setting the CUB on a chair that sits directly behind me and my stool. Anyone listening from the front will hear the sound of my bass with a warm blanket of richness around the sides. I'm going to try this for a concert on Monday night, a series that a colleague and I started entitled "faculty chamber jazz" where we play with various classical faculty at the school. Up until now I've always played unamplified with piano, string quartets, bowed double bass, clarinet, etc., and it's been great. But this year, three of the numbers feature classical saxophone quartets, and I've been straining my right hand trying to fit in the mix in the right place, so I'm gong to use the little tiny shoebox amp, but not let the audience see it. So far so good!
More after the concert...
- I don't know what it technically does to the signal from the Full Circle, but what comes out of this thing sounds much more focused, aligned, and clear than the Full Circle signal does without it. It's like driving a car immediately after cleaning the windshield; you can hear details that you couldn't before, even though logically they were all there the whole time.
- I would love to be able to say that it "gets rid of the piezo quack/honk" or whatever that sound is about piezos that we all grimace at. It doesn't do that exactly, but it mixes whatever that ugly frequency is back underneath the surface of the sound so that it doesn't stick out, and instead lets it provide the punch that it's supposed to, but from behind the scenes, so you get to feel the unmistakeable strength of the sound without having to look at an unnaturally straining flexed muscle while doing so. Strong, but smooth and more natural somehow. Yeah, words kind of fail...
- My favorite part is the way the clarity of the high end of the sound enables me to intonate so much more easily and naturally. I'm assuming this must have something to do with the "upper order harmonics/rounder waveform/e=mc2/etc." tech speak that always emerges when tube amps are discussed, but whatever - to paraphrase a favorite old comedy sketch, "your honor, I'm just a bass player". And as a bass player, I can hear intonation much more quickly and clearly through this thing, and I like that.
- Last, I'm using an old trick that I stole from my old mentor Paul Warburton and setting the CUB on a chair that sits directly behind me and my stool. Anyone listening from the front will hear the sound of my bass with a warm blanket of richness around the sides. I'm going to try this for a concert on Monday night, a series that a colleague and I started entitled "faculty chamber jazz" where we play with various classical faculty at the school. Up until now I've always played unamplified with piano, string quartets, bowed double bass, clarinet, etc., and it's been great. But this year, three of the numbers feature classical saxophone quartets, and I've been straining my right hand trying to fit in the mix in the right place, so I'm gong to use the little tiny shoebox amp, but not let the audience see it. So far so good!
More after the concert...
Did you plug the Noble into the Cub's effects return or instrument jack? I find the FX return is much clearer and pristine. Using the instrument jack means you're adding the Cub's preamp and that isn't always as clean a tone....
