Nobody cares about your tone....

[JSandbloom]

Also, we have to admit. All arguments about good tone are null and void when the house soundguy insists you use one of these.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Which separates the hobbyist from the working player. IMO.

I would say it separates the guy who wants to do just enough to get by with the guy who wants to create the best product possible. That dichotomy exists in all manner of business, from music to software development to telemarketing. IME, the audience can easily tell when a band sounds "professional," even if they aren't able to articulate what exactly makes the difference. Tone, among other things, is a factor in that equation.

 

[JSandbloom]

I would say it separates the guy who wants to do just enough to get by with the guy who wants to create the best product possible. That dichotomy exists in all manner of business, from music to software development to telemarketing. IME, the audience can easily tell when a band sounds "professional," even if they aren't able to articulate what exactly makes the difference. Tone, among other things, is a factor in that equation.

I couldn't disagree more. If you want to look at it from a business side of things. You have to look at the return on investment. Familiar with the concept? How long till you start making money off of your amp let's say.

For career musicians your bread and butter is what you walk away with from the gig. So you have a choice to make. Will an SVTIII give me good enough tone to do my job or will my job only be satisfied by an Aguilar DB751? Well, the SVTIII gives me 90% satisfaction coming in at around a grand retail. But the DB750 gives me 100% satisfaction in tone and comes in about 2400 retail. So the business question is; is 10% worth 1400 dollars? If you have babies to feed and wives with spending habits then it's a no brainer. You return on your SVT3 investment a lot quicker the the Aguilar. Thus your making money and surviving as a working musician.

If your work a day job (and God bless you if you do) you don't have to worry about ROI because your gig money is probably play money to get the toys for the music and your day gig pays for the food and the wife.

 

[placedesjardins]

except for you!

So now that I have your attention, I have come to the realization that people who come to your shows couldnt care less about your bass tone. I have found that if they can hear you, it sounds good. If they can't, they still think it sounds good! Musicians that see your shows are exempt of course.

So why do we spend our lives buying expensive gear that will give you a 400hz notch instead of a 800hz notch on the amp you just sold at a $500 loss to get the amp with the 800hz notch. The people we are playing to realistically have no changes in the experience in the show.

So is it we are doing this to amuse ourselfs? Is this another form of playing with our peckers? Do we try to get better tone then other bass players, Just so you can say "so, how about those new pickups I installed....I bet your jealous, it gives me a crystal clear terrible boost at 6.5khz"?

Really? Give me feedback and hate comments!

 

[tonemachine]

I have seen shows where the bass sounded *great* and other shows where it sounded AWFUL. I saw a clinic by *BASSIST TO BE UNNAMED BECAUSE HE'S WILDLY TOUCHY* where his playing, skilled though it was, sounded like caca. Amps/instrument - whatever, it was mud-fart city. Not good.

So yeah - tone *can* matter... though probably not as much as most folks think.

Just had to hit reply on someone's, nothing personal. I think caca is venue specific. No (or little) way for a player to accurately adjust his tone to make sure it sounds good where you are but from where he is. It seems futile. Though, in your clinic example, it seems like it would be relatively easy.to get a.good tone. But in a.big room and then pile all the other stuff on top.... I think all you can do is make sure you are boosting mids to cut through rather than more bass and making mud.

I recently started boosting mids to positive feedback from both audience and house sound guys. Then I played for the first time ever with a pick(and that just creates all sorts of extra mids) and that brought comments from even more people about how the bass just came through. I'm getting sold on mids for loud clarity.

On the other hand, I saw Andrew W K (by accident) on Friday and the bass was just mud soup with 2 guitars, keys, drums and probably tracks. This was largely beyond the bassists control.... unless he wasn't giving the board enough mids to work. But, yes, nobody else noticed or cared.

 

[Ric5]

except for you!

So now that I have your attention, I have come to the realization that people who come to your shows couldnt care less about your bass tone. I have found that if they can hear you, it sounds good. If they can't, they still think it sounds good! Musicians that see your shows are exempt of course.

So why do we spend our lives buying expensive gear that will give you a 400hz notch instead of a 800hz notch on the amp you just sold at a $500 loss to get the amp with the 800hz notch. The people we are playing to realistically have no changes in the experience in the show.

So is it we are doing this to amuse ourselfs? Is this another form of playing with our peckers? Do we try to get better tone then other bass players, Just so you can say "so, how about those new pickups I installed....I bet your jealous, it gives me a crystal clear terrible boost at 6.5khz"?

Really? Give me feedback and hate comments!

I have good tone for me ... I enjoy it even if nobody notices

 

[I Need a six...]

I think you play a genre were it doesn't matter. Every group I've joined cared, and the people who saw us... Yea no matter what they'll tell me "sounded great dood" even if I had no idea what was happening.

 

[since197three]

except for you!

So now that I have your attention, I have come to the realization that people who come to your shows couldnt care less about your bass tone. I have found that if they can hear you, it sounds good. If they can't, they still think it sounds good! Musicians that see your shows are exempt of course.

So why do we spend our lives buying expensive gear that will give you a 400hz notch instead of a 800hz notch on the amp you just sold at a $500 loss to get the amp with the 800hz notch. The people we are playing to realistically have no changes in the experience in the show.

So is it we are doing this to amuse ourselfs? Is this another form of playing with our peckers? Do we try to get better tone then other bass players, Just so you can say "so, how about those new pickups I installed....I bet your jealous, it gives me a crystal clear terrible boost at 6.5khz"?

Really? Give me feedback and hate comments!

I know when I'm doing a gig, I'm 1000x more into it when I can hear myself and it sounds awesome.

Bottomline, I do it for myself and to make the band sound better as a whole.

Besides, I've had the same rig for 15 yrs now.

 

[JSandbloom]

I think you play a genre were it doesn't matter. Every group I've joined cared, and the people who saw us... Yea no matter what they'll tell me "sounded great dood" even if I had no idea what was happening.

I play Aguilar and Sadowskys basses, my tone is good. However, the purpose of the thread was to get opinions if it's worth it.

As far as what I play.....I play with a lot of people so I'm all over the genre board. The Aggie and Sad covers it all.

 

[JSandbloom]

I know when I'm doing a gig, I'm 1000x more into it when I can hear myself and it sounds awesome.

Bottomline, I do it for myself and to make the band sound better as a whole.

Besides, I've had the same rig for 15 yrs now.

I 100% agree with you. However, when you playing venues where your cab is really only there to hold your head up and your stage volume is through a wedge. Kind of kills it.

 

[I Need a six...]

I play Aguilar and Sadowskys basses, my tone is good. However, the purpose of the thread was to get opinions if it's worth it.

As far as what I play.....I play with a lot of people so I'm all over the genre board. The Aggie and Sad covers it all.

Ah I see, well yes it's worth it. I only have a fender p but it still has great tone. Mostly the acoustic 200 watt amp, great rig.

 

[JSandbloom]

Ah I see, well yes it's worth it. I only have a fender p but it still has great tone. Mostly the acoustic 200 watt amp, great rig.

The PBass is what people want in the studio. The acoustic amp.....dunno. ;-p

 

[Pako]

If my tone is on and sounding good to me, I will play better. That's why my tone matters. Fighting tone is a distraction that I don't like when I'm playing.

 

[I Need a six...]

The PBass is what people want in the studio. The acoustic amp.....dunno. ;-p

It's fairness is it's plus, it's only got one good sound kind of though, turn up the 1200 or 800 it sounds like shiitake mushrooms. The p bass that is.

 

[Eminor3rd]

I couldn't disagree more. If you want to look at it from a business side of things. You have to look at the return on investment. Familiar with the concept? How long till you start making money off of your amp let's say.

For career musicians your bread and butter is what you walk away with from the gig. So you have a choice to make. Will an SVTIII give me good enough tone to do my job or will my job only be satisfied by an Aguilar DB751? Well, the SVTIII gives me 90% satisfaction coming in at around a grand retail. But the DB750 gives me 100% satisfaction in tone and comes in about 2400 retail. So the business question is; is 10% worth 1400 dollars? If you have babies to feed and wives with spending habits then it's a no brainer. You return on your SVT3 investment a lot quicker the the Aguilar. Thus your making money and surviving as a working musician.

If your work a day job (and God bless you if you do) you don't have to worry about ROI because your gig money is probably play money to get the toys for the music and your day gig pays for the food and the wife.

But you're talking about $800-1000 over the course of, what, ten to fifteen years? If you can't eat because of that grand, then you've got bigger problems than tone. It's not like you have to buy a new amp head every couple months.

That's one of the great things about gear -- in a relative sense, it's so affordable! You can save up a bit and get really high end stuff. Not every retail industry is like that.

 

[JSandbloom]

But you're talking about $800-1000 over the course of, what, ten to fifteen years? If you can't eat because of that grand, then you've got bigger problems than tone. It's not like you have to buy a new amp head every couple months.

That's one of the great things about gear -- in a relative sense, it's so affordable! You can save up a bit and get really high end stuff. Not every retail industry is like that.

Amps are easy on a minimum 3 year replacement cycle. When they are hauled on trucks and in trailers in humid to dry weather. They become unreliable. You hear horror story's of people losing amps while on the road. It's true.

Also when you think about it. If your doing it for a living, the amp is a tool. I know construction workers that use made in China tools that are just as good as the American named tools at twice the price. It isn't worth the brand name and they can use the money saved on something else.

 

[Jared Lash]

Most not run run thru FOH very often.

As a hobbyist (and one who is just now trying to get fully back to gigging after a few years dialed back significantly with young kids) I obviously don't have as much experience as others but for me at least this issue seems overblown.

I've had sound guys want me to go through their DI box but after talking it out I've (with one exception at a charity gig with a bunch of acts) always convinced them to let me provide a post EQ DI signal from my amp. Guitarists get to be fussy about their tone and mic'ing their cabs - I don't know why we as bassists don't politely insist on getting our sound, especially when it isn't much more work for the sound guy.

For me its usually just a matter of saying, "if you don't think things don't sound good my way, we can do it your way". And I've never had a sound guy take me up on that - either because I'm right and my tone sounds good in the mix or because they don't care. Either way, I get my sound.

And that matters to me.

I ca understand it not mattering to others. Or not mattering enough to bother spending the extra cash.

Is it worth paying extra for higher quality tequila/vodka/scotch etc or does it all taste the same and get you equally buzzed?

Is it worth buying a BMW when a car half the price gets you from point A to point B with a somewhat similar ride and features?

And do we value those things for ourselves or because of how others perceive us because of them? I don't begrudge anybody their choices or opinions but for me it's solely about what I like and the value they bring me personally.

 

[Roy Vogt]

IME tone is a bit like timing and groove. When it's on, no one notices specifically, but when it's off EVERYONE notices.

 

[jg42]

I've decided to never go bigger than this Pedalboard Jr. I really don't use a lot of effects...OC-2, a couple different distortions, occasionally a clean boost.

A fuzz, maybe - then again a chorus is nice too. And we forgot the phaser, flanger.... We all started from just a few pedals.

 

[spectorfreak]

RE: Billy and Scientology, I know Scientologists and they're alternately as decent and lousy as any other bunch of people. Got no interest in being one ever, but if it makes them happy, que sera sera.

He's certainly the most polite and least insane one I've seen, is it a religion, nah, a giant money making scheme yes. Unfortunately they recruit celebs like Billy because it's good for their image and they get shown a whole different side of the thing, not the reality. But as I said, I dig his music, Mr Big is/was killer. His tone is horrendous though