Double Bass Noise Gate and compressor to shape sustain sound

[mani1147]

Hi everyone, I have been playing my palatino EUB for 4 years or so, for the money it’s a great, portable upright bass. The type of music I play with the bass is mostly bluegrass/country stuff.
My biggest peeve over the years has been the wild note sustain that my EUB has, it rings forever. An acoustic upright in Bluegrass normally has a very short sustain type sound. With this in mind, I set out to try and simulate this sound envelop using my DAWs compressor to tame the dynamics and then a noise gate with a precisely tune hold/release time. I am totally pleased with the sound I came up with, much much closer to the typical sustain on most Bluegrass records. Now for my question?

Does anyone know of a pedal that has the full control set (threshold,ratio,attack,hold,release) of buttons? That way I could switch it off when a long sustained note is needed say at the end of a tune. I have googled this to death and found nothing. I could insert a gate thru the send/return of my Paracoustic DI but I would'nt have the bypass/footswitch option.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Roby

 

[Francois Blais]

Maybe you'd get a more natural result with different strings.
Orchestral strings are more damped.
What strings do you have on?

The setup is also important, as is your technique.
If the action is very low, it gives more sustain.
Higher action may help reduce the problem.
The way you pluck the strings is also an important key for the tone you get.

Your profile is empty, so we don't have a clue about your setup, etc.

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

maybe a foam bad under the strings?

dunno, don´t have experience with this kind of basses

 

[BigBeatNut]

A compressor is going to increase your sustain surely ? Though I understand a gate is going to chop the sustain off.

You might want an expander (opposite of compressor, increases dynamic range of output versus the input) but there aren't too many of those about. Here's one -- http://www.ehx.com/products/steel-leather -- but I guess that one is more about increasing the impact of your attack rather than increasing the rapidity of your decay.

If it's compressors you want, a fellow TBer has compiled the biggest list you'll ever want to see -- http://www.ovnilab.com/index.shtml

Andy

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Does anyone know of a pedal that has the full control set (threshold,ratio,attack,hold,release) of buttons? That way I could switch it off when a long sustained note is needed say at the end of a tune.

I've not come across one, personally, and a quick search on the net doesn't bring one up. I'd think a solution might be to use a small format "studio" compressor (one of the half-rack units from dbx or something like it?) and build yourself a simple true bypass effects loop switch; that might be a solution to the question you're asking.

That said, I'll second the suggestion of strings; it may be a less expensive and less technically complicated way to get what you're looking for. I immediately got a pretty darn good URB-ish sound with my NS WAV4 when I swapped the stock strings for some Helicore Orchestra strings.

Here's my philosophy on the subject (take that for what it's worth): The best any EUB could aspire to, tone-wise, is to sound like a double bass with a pickup on it, running through an amp.

Since the Palatino bass (like my WAV4) is tightly constructed and is a solid-body instrument, its natural habits lean towards a more electric sounding bass (more sustain, more string-y sound, that sort of thing.) The stock strings on my WAV don't help; they're fairly un-upright-like in my opinion. I bet the stock Palatino strings aren't much better, in that regard. In my experience, using strings which pull it towards a more URB-oriented sound (less sustain, a more blunt attack to notes, almost a gut-string-like vibe) will counter-balance the electric nature of the bass.

Two strings which I have personally tried and found success with on the WAV4 are the Pirastro Obligatos and the Helicore Orchestra strings. Both have a darker, less defined tone which sounds great on the WAV4; and both strings fit the bass-guitar-sized tuning machines on the bass. I have the Helicores on my personal bass and like them quite a bit; I've strung up several customer's basses with the Obligatos.

One other thing that might help - NS Design sets up the WAV4 and NXT basses with VERY low action. (It's probably to impress the electric bassists who try the bass when it's on display at Guitar Center.) To get that "big" URB sound, the strings need enough clearance to be plucked with vigor - and enough room to "bloom" without vibrating against the fingerboard. I raised the action a little on my WAV and that alone improved its sound quite a bit, because I could PLAY it more like a real URB.

Again, YMMV with the Palatino.

That's my personal take - obviously, strings and tone are very subjective!

 

[bassdaddyfive]

+1 on Mark's idea. String type and action setup will win out over gadgets everytime. Orch. strings and a little higher action, It makes a big diffrence on my Azola EUB.

 

[Zbysek]

Hi everyone, I have been playing my palatino EUB for 4 years or so, for the money it’s a great, portable upright bass. The type of music I play with the bass is mostly bluegrass/country stuff.
My biggest peeve over the years has been the wild note sustain that my EUB has, it rings forever. An acoustic upright in Bluegrass normally has a very short sustain type sound. With this in mind, I set out to try and simulate this sound envelop using my DAWs compressor to tame the dynamics and then a noise gate with a precisely tune hold/release time. I am totally pleased with the sound I came up with, much much closer to the typical sustain on most Bluegrass records. Now for my question?

Does anyone know of a pedal that has the full control set (threshold,ratio,attack,hold,release) of buttons? That way I could switch it off when a long sustained note is needed say at the end of a tune. I have googled this to death and found nothing. I could insert a gate thru the send/return of my Paracoustic DI but I would'nt have the bypass/footswitch option.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Roby

Reviving an old thread...what's the solution you came to?

 

[Zbysek]

This should help:

https://gollihurmusic.com/accessori...inomute-for-double-bass-and-electric-upright/

 

[BarfanyShart]

Stock Palatino strings are bad. I gigged a Palatino EUB for years and thought it was fine, then it occurred to me to put a set of Spirocore Mittels on it (cuz I always liked those on DB) ... and boy, that things is a completely different instrument - a ton of sustain, full sound, good amplified sound with the bow, the tone knob actually does stuff now, just amazing.

You might want to try something like tapewound weedwhackers, or something like that to get the sound you're looking for.

A noise gate is a great idea with any instrument like this. Piezos are just noisy little beasts.

Compression, I think very little or none is your best bet with this bass. You want to keep as much natural attack sound as possible to get the desired effect.

If you don't have a bow for those real long last notes, then a sustainer is good, the kind where you pluck the last note, step on the button, then step on the button again when the song is over. That's a good effect onstage, I've never used it, but I like it.

 

[BarfanyShart]

Just one other idea, since somebody mention the rubber/foam mutes, the Palatino has a real bridge that you could use an ebony orchestra mute on. It darkens the sound and cuts sustain, but not so much that it crushes tone and volume to the degree foam does.

 

[Wasnex]

Hi everyone, I have been playing my palatino EUB for 4 years or so, for the money it’s a great, portable upright bass. The type of music I play with the bass is mostly bluegrass/country stuff.
My biggest peeve over the years has been the wild note sustain that my EUB has, it rings forever. An acoustic upright in Bluegrass normally has a very short sustain type sound. With this in mind, I set out to try and simulate this sound envelop using my DAWs compressor to tame the dynamics and then a noise gate with a precisely tune hold/release time. I am totally pleased with the sound I came up with, much much closer to the typical sustain on most Bluegrass records. Now for my question?

Does anyone know of a pedal that has the full control set (threshold,ratio,attack,hold,release) of buttons? That way I could switch it off when a long sustained note is needed say at the end of a tune. I have googled this to death and found nothing. I could insert a gate thru the send/return of my Paracoustic DI but I would'nt have the bypass/footswitch option.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Roby

Never seen a pedal with all of the parameters, most just have Threshold. The closest thing I have ever used is an old Boss RCL-10. I used to have a pair in a PA in the 90s and I believe the Expander Gate behaved the way you are describing. There is a level switch on the back for signal level. I believe it works at instruments level.

The Boss NS-2 has Threshold and and a knob called Decay that controls have fast the Gate clamps down.

While I agree a noise gate with all the parameters can be used in the way you describe, I believe it only works if you play within the dynamic range the pedal is adjusted for, so you really can't play naturally. In other words, it will have limited utility for a live setting where you would be expected to play dynamically.

You probably have better results using orchestral strings and higher action.