Double Bass Non-roundwound feeling metal-wrapped gut?

[Reiska]

Hello. I`m looking for great sounding and feeling wrapped guts under my plain gut GD. My previous experiences on wrapped guts include Pirastro Pizzicato Nylon wrapped GD, metal wrapped D, Gamut Pistoy AE and a anonymous E. My conclusions are that I hate the roundwound feel and shifting zing. They make my finger skin hurt or bleed if it`s bad enough and I seriously need healthy skin of hands in my life outside playing the DB. Garbos are my go-to strings under plain guts, but they have some of the skin affecting issues too. Haven`t tried Garbo lights but shortly a E under plain gut ADG. I`ve never tried Pirastro Olivs, Eudoxa or copper-wound Gamuts, or wrapped boutique strings like Baldock, Genssler and such. I prefer european stuff as I`m in EU and am financially confined.

I`ve understood that Eudoxas are smooth feeling, but very high tension, spiro mittel-ish. This is no-no, I`d like the lower strings to be in same ballpark in tension and feel with my plain guts, which are stiff and tense for plain guts, but still feel and sound like, obviously, plain guts. I`m considering getting reqular Chordas at some point; I like the gauge and feel of stiff and tense plain guts, and I have set up my bass for that kind of feel. Don`t know about Oliv`s, do they have this roundwound thing? What else is there on the market than Pirastro? Boutique stuff is great, but you can`t get Genssler single strings, and there`s the finance issue too. Overall, does the kind of thing I`m asking for exist at all, a " flatwound " type of wrapped gut string with similar tension to plain guts?

Garbo lights are on the list first if no other option shows up. I have E.P slaps AE now on my bass, have used Garbos and Animas and tried E.P req and w, Spiro solos, weichs and starks, Corelli 380`s, Gamut Pistoy mediums.

At first I thought that I`m never ever going for wrapped gut AE for practical reasons, and as Garbos have served really well, but then again I might try and go if there`s a real thing without the annoying roundwound feel or /and uneven tension. This is pizz / arco / slap.

Thanks much, Reiska

 

[Francois Blais]

Chordas bottom strings are round wound as well methinks.
What about plain gut on all four strings?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Chorda E&A are roundwound. Maybe EP Weich or Solo? What you describe is a pretty niche string.

 

[Reiska]

Thanks Francois and KFS. I was really close going all plain gut as I love the tone, but right hand health became an issue a couple of months ago with low tension guts, with plain A and low tension E. I had to set my strings moderately high to get what I want, pizz and arco ( 11mm`s under the G ). Now, I`ve tried Lenzner supersolo A with my ghetto Pirastro DG and E.P weich E, which I like a lot, but the tension balance is too much off as I`m looking for a set that I don`t have to worry about tension-wise. A little resistance from the strings is good. Great stuff is that I spent last 3 months working on my pizz technique, I just realized that now I`m able to get a serious tone much more relaxed, with E.P slaps under my DG, but I still would like something stiffer and with more tension than Lezner or Gamut plain gut. Maybe it`s about Garbos, req or light for me anyway. I was just wondering if that sort of wrapped gut exists, smooth surface as E.P`s are, gut tension and give under the left hand, low-end presence. I`d go Pirastro Pizzicato AE but the zingy feel is there too. I know all the bs metal wrapped gut includes, with the price, but I quess I could take it. I`ve tried all Evahs under the guts, but non of these are giving the same balance of feel, tension and TONE that Garbos provide. Only thing about Garbos is something about the wrap that wears the skin of my fingers. They sound great, behave like guts ( maybe it`s the organic silk core ) and I haven`t yet broken a Velvet A or E. Maybe I`m way too anal about it, but felt like asking anyway.

 

[Reiska]

Pirastro Oliv wrapping, how does it feel?

 

[Harry Monkley]

What about bumping a spiro 4/4 mittel A string down to E?

 

[JohnDavisNYC]

Pirastro Oliv wrapping, how does it feel?

The Oliv is a completely smooth metal wrap. Feels just like a synthetic or metal core string, in terms of the surface texture (obviously the tension and diameter are like a gut string, as it is a gut core). I've been using an Oliv G (over EP Weich) for a few months and I'm in love with it.

John

 

[Reiska]

Thanks a lot @JohnDavisNYC , that`s exactly the kind of information I`m after! I`m a hardcore fan of Chris Wood, who plays Olivs on top of Spiro w E, sounding sooo good, pizz, arco or slap. I`ve been thinking that if Olivs have the sort of surface I need, I`d love to try them.

 

[Reiska]

What about bumping a spiro 4/4 mittel A string down to E?

Thanks but I`ll check out the standard options first!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Thanks a lot @JohnDavisNYC , that`s exactly the kind of information I`m after! I`m a hardcore fan of Chris Wood, who plays Olivs on top of Spiro w E, sounding sooo good, pizz, arco or slap. I`ve been thinking that if Olivs have the sort of surface I need, I`d love to try them.

But they are expensive, the lower strings are often disliked by players up to the D. And they are delicate too as I read here, the thin winding might break if you do a lot of slap and even without that heavy treatment (because of climate changes that let the core expand).

I guess the reason for the lesser interest in lower wound gut core string (beyond heavy detuning with climate changes) is that steel and synthetic core strings have the same core (and diameter!) for each string of the set, whereas gut core strings often or always have only one layer of metal wrap on growing core diameters towards the lower strings. That makes the strings stiffer and might be the reason why lower gut core strings might often be disliked. Mostly recognizable in pizz, less arco.

 

[Reiska]

Thanks for your reply and concern DM, but I`m aware of this. One thing no other than gut string has is the massive low end presence and that`s the reason I`m interested enough in possibly buying the E and A. Still on the fence though, as Garbos get really close without wrapped gut BS level.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Did you try a repositioning of the soundpost?
If that doesn't help you might want to think about getting a different bass. Might not be that much more expensive than investing in high priced strings every few years and gives you more choices for strings.

Another trick might be putting the bass on a resonating plate that extends the low end.
OK, not nice to carry that around, but maybe still an option. Maybe it could be shaped that it fits in the bass case at the bass's bottom or could be fixed to the packed bass to haul it around (using wheels of course).

 

[Reiska]

Nothing about the soundpost, never mind a new bass as I have a good one. My fundamental problem is the right hand skin health as I`m continuing my massagist education that I`ve been doing aside the music stuff along recent 10 or so years, and I need healthy hands in that ( imagine going to a massagist with bleeding fingers ). It`s a string feel issue, as I am working on my pizz technique intensively, and will continue doing that. But, there`s this bug about the tone you hear in pre-spirocore recordings, I can`t get over that, along with my hearing loss. I play a lot of full- or semi-acoustic stuff and gut strings provide a tone I can hear myself with when playing with others. For me spirocores and a drummer means difficulties, as there`s basicly nothing happening over 2000Hz in my hearing. Anyway, Garbos have served me well too, as I wrote I might be just too anal about the tone and feel after DB-related right hand disaster and following months of setup tweaking and pizz practise.

 

[Sean Peters]

Sorry to hear about that skin irritation issue. The feel of the roundwound E always used to bug me, but not anymore. I hear that whooshy zip all over Oscar Pettiford and Percy Heath recordings, and I listen for it in my own playing to make sure that I am making fast shifts with my fingers close to the strings.
In addition to Oliv and Eudoxa, I'd check out Gamut and Dlugolecki. I believe you can get the windings polished at Gamut for an upcharge. The Dlugolecki windings are polished, and feel sort of like a half flat electric bass string. For the smooth hand feel of flat windings, I've found you sacrifice some definition and 'edge' to the tone.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

My King is strung with plain gut ADG and an EP Orch A tuned to E. It works, but might not on a shorter mensure.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Hi Reiska,

I just wondered that you can work with Garbos. The last (and only) time I played a bass with Garbos for only two pieces gave me three blisters. And I never got blisters playing three pieces in a row on any bass that I played on a jam session.
Seems to be something very special to select the right strings for you. I'm sorry that I cannot help you with that. But it is good that you explained your situation and needs a bit more.
Maybe it can help others to give you recommendations if you list the strings you have tried and why they didn't work for you. It's easier to have that in one place than to look around and miss something.

 

[Francois Blais]

What about Innovation Silver or Golden Slaps?
The outer winding is round but made of synthetic so it's not agressive.

 

[Reiska]

Thank you all for great responses!!! Yes DoubleMidi, it`s weird this Garbo surface as it feels smooth otherwise. Bumped strings are not my thing, especially under guts as they IME loose the fundamental power and volume. Francois, I never tried any innovations, do you know how Silver and Golden slaps behave under the bow?

 

[Francois Blais]

Francois, I never tried any innovations, do you know how Silver and Golden slaps behave under the bow?

Can't help with the stick, sorry!

 

[Jeff Kissell]

... do you know how Silver and Golden slaps behave under the bow?

The Innovation Gold or Silver slaps can be bowed but it's not easy. If you can bow the silver wire wound guts you would be able to... however I don't think it's worth it unless you're only bowing occasionally and they are the best choice for another reason, i.e. slap or old timey/bluegrass, etc. I would suggest the Evah Slap synthetics or the Olivs as the place to start, most everything else is either a compromise in tension or diameter/size.