non-transparent pre-amps

[LoTone]

I think you're right to a point. Lots of these basses we're talking about (the Stingray example above being chief among them) have their signature tone in part because of the pre. You choose a Stingray because it has that sound, if you find you need to make drastic EQ changes to make it sound good you've probably picked the wrong bass

There is no absolute "flat" from which to get all the tones you want with EQ. If a bass does it for your ears, for whatever reason, then rock it out. Track it, gig it, make it do what it do

Also flat into an interface is not really representative of electric bass tone (the amp is a massive part of the equation as somebody else pointed out). Even if I'm tracking direct it's typically with an outboard pre. For serious recordings its a couple mics on a cab or two and a DI.

This is a reason why I do not understand why EBMM chose to go passive for the short-scale version of the Stingray. Can a Stingray be a Stingray without the preamp? I would say no.

 

[Lil Mo]

Transparency is important to me, if I lost my preferred amp or pre-amp, I'd be glad to get my sound back with another amp/pre-amp.

When I compare instruments at home I use a USB interface with no processing, so I get the raw sound of the instrument, not the baked-in sound of the processing.

Recently I bought a bass after seeing demos of it on YT, but AFTER I bought it I realized the pre-amp was 80% of the sound, not the bass.
because other basses sounded the same, with completely different pickups

So, what pre-amps are out there that really change the sound of the instrument?

You use active or passive bass? Most of my basses are active and I can usually dial in the a good portion tone of my instrument tone on about any amp (not all as the tone is the sum of the parts, bass/amp/ effects / cabs ) but I think an active bass helps.

 

[thumbslapper]

The 3 band Glockenklang pre is as close to completely transparent as I've ever heard. The sadowsky is right up there alongside it, although I have less experience with those fellas.

Every preamp has a different freq/impedance graph which will make the freq response of the pickups different, and none of them is a flat graph, which is why different preamps sound different.

look at Audere Audio Technical Details about Impedance in Electric Guitars for a better explanation.

Having said that I put a 3 band Glockenklang pre in my Dingwall AB1-6 and while the volume is the same between passive and active there is a slight change in tone - the low end seems to get tightened up, but its pretty subtle. The difference is the impedance load on the pickups is either in the bass preamp (Glockenklang) or the first thing your bass is plugged into. I would totally recommend the Glockenklang preamp - super clean, great EQ (the treble EQ is at 10khz which is a little high, but it does work), and very high quality components - I forgot the brand of the volume pot, but i looked for it online and i found it for $110 just for the pot. It is not cheap - i think I paid $200 - but very much worth it.

If you want to plug straight into a computer interface input you would be better off getting a high quality DI - like a Rupert Neve DI for example - then depending on the $2 circuitry on your computer interface.

 

[bearhart74]

The Audere Pro Z has a zillion options and can be very transparent if you want it to be.
Rumour has it that Glockenklang and Delano are as transparent as possible.

 

[micguy]

I'm told the Stringray 3-band preamp has a pretty big bearing on the tone you get from said Stingray.

Yes - that's true - the Stingray preamp is not a "coloration" or alteration of the tone of the instrument - it's an integral part of the design and tone of the instrument. Pickup position has a big effect on the sound of an instrument, and there are tradeoffs with various positions. The designer of the Stingray (Leo) liked the position chosen for that bass for certain reasons, but it loses low end due to that position. So, he added a preamp that "fixes" that issue. The design is not meant to be used without that EQ.

The Stingray preamp isn't "colored" - the bass without the preamp, if you asked the designer (when he was alive) is what's "colored". The preamp "uncolors" the sound.

 

[logdrum]

The Pope preamp is transparent. It is also costly ~300
Never heard of it till I got my Tune bass

The old Q preamp by Bartolini is also transparent. When open, you basically have no tone control interfering. It has no bass treble or mid EQ. This preamp will tell you how your pickups really sound.

 

[neddyrow]

i too like a tone that does not have it's own color to it. i know i'm not supposed to say this but i usually plug my bass to my AI amp. very transparent but rich bass tone. if i do need a preamp to boost my signal a little, i use my Focusrite ISAone. a bit of overkill for a live situation but it has no color and gives you a pretty true representation of your bass' sound

 

[sears]

I have an old passive SUB and it sounds.. like a Stingray. With the dials set in the middle, does the Stingray preamp really color the tone? Maybe I should get it routed out

 

[HolmeBass]

simple:
active/passive switch

My main bass sounds exactly the same active or passive, when all the EQ knobs are at center.

That is remarkable. Even the most transparent of pre’s add something to the sound, even if it’s just changing the output impedance of your signal, the amp will react to that.

It is an interesting question for sure.

My new favorite colorizer isn’t really a pre at all, it’s the Cali 76 CB compressor and it’s sooo goood!! A little extra percussive attack and then the mildest of mild grit/drive. So much less than I’ve ever been able to dial in with an actual OD, even my Grizzly Bass which is set to “almost not there”.

It’s funny how sometimes the most subtle shaping is the most magical in the mix.

 

[HolmeBass]

Anything with EQ is going to leave a mark, even with the EQ adjusted to “flat” (whatever that is...)

I found a lot of surprise looking for a clean boost. A clean boost is supposed to be “a straight wire with gain” if anything is, and all but the Zvex Super Hardon (at over $200!!) was “transparent” enough that neither I nor the salesman at the shop (the great Russo Music in Asbury Park, NJ) could detect a difference.

The Xotic EP was definitely colored, but it is supposed to be. So was the MXR Micro Amp, which was more surprising. Was the difference subtle? You bet. Subtle enough that I can not qualitatively describe other than there was a difference.

So I think what I am trying to say is what you’re looking for costs money. To really get close costs what many would consider a ridiculous amount of money. Whether it is worth it to you is a personal choice.

My proclivities are such that I could not use a Sansamp BDDI except as a bandage to salvage a terrible backline. Ditto for the ToneHammer, and the TH amps. And Ampeg amps. Just me, but just to give you an idea of where I am coming from. And I hear others use that gear and sound great so it is sort of a personal problem.

 

[jazzyvee]

I you have an active bass maybe you could get close to the natural sound of your bass by plugging the output directly into a power amp which is what I did while ago at a rehearsal studio when the head was distorting and to be honest I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded and good to know I can do that if my rack pre-amp goes wonky on a gig. It might help that my bass runs at 36vdc.

 

[Heisenbass]

I'm interested in staying away from any pre-amp that alters the timbre when set neutrally, be it onboard in-amp or in-box.
Yeah, that's a tall order!

The thread was started with the intention of discussing pre-amp boxes, like the Aguilar Tone-Hammer.
When I first got mine I thought it was transparent, but apparently it's not as transparent as I originally assumed.

My complaint about the Rumble V3 pre-amp was that it has a 6 dB dip at 600 Hz, but they may have smoothed that out in the new Stage & Studio pre-amp.
Earlier this year I plugged my bass straight into the Effects Return on a Rumble Studio amp with the new Studio pre-amp engaged & it sounded the same as plugging into the front-end.

I have a Presonus BlueTube at home which I like very much. It’s a microphone preamp but you can use it with a bass w/o trouble. If you want a bit of grit, just dial in the tube. It’s great for controlling equity gain using the VU meter and it makes a great DI. Even dual channel.

 

[PullThePlug]

When I think colored tone, I think Tech 21 NYC products.

Sansamp is an absolute classic baked in tone, as well as the VT bass and character series. Even the fly rigs including the DP-3x.
Not a bad pick in the lot, one for every genre.

 

[hennessybass]

First thing that came to mind was SansAmp.

I recently listened to a shootout with about 6 pres. Clean and dirty.

The all sounded very similar in clean with one exception that really stood out. The all sounded different in dirt mode, emphasizing certain freq - with one exception again that was so different it stuck out like a sore thumb. — you guessed it - SansAmp.

 

[diegom]

That Tech 21 dUg sounds great but I think calling it a preamp is a bit of a misnomer regardless of it’s ‘clean’ capabilities and amp-like knob layout.

I just saw dUg last Tuesday.
A bunch of people played before him, through the house SVT. Classic Ampeg sound.

dUg walked in, plugged his little box to the SVT and..... THUNDER!!! Crazy how distorted and well-defined his tone is. Another song, he sounded almost Geddy-ish, kinda like edge of breakup...

dUg's tone is unique, but that pedal has many personalities. And, agreeing with @Lowbrow, definitely NOT transparent.

 

[Rib 13]

Yes - that's true - the Stingray preamp is not a "coloration" or alteration of the tone of the instrument - it's an integral part of the design and tone of the instrument. Pickup position has a big effect on the sound of an instrument, and there are tradeoffs with various positions. The designer of the Stingray (Leo) liked the position chosen for that bass for certain reasons, but it loses low end due to that position. So, he added a preamp that "fixes" that issue. The design is not meant to be used without that EQ.

The Stingray preamp isn't "colored" - the bass without the preamp, if you asked the designer (when he was alive) is what's "colored". The preamp "uncolors" the sound.

Based on the quotes, I'm guessing you were addressing my post on the previous page.....I was using the term 'color' as an ambiguous concept ( I stated "it's overall color"), not to be taken literally, the point being that the Ray is definitely a bass where the proprietary nature of its pre is as much of a component of its signature as the pickup itself, which you above also stated.....so, really, we are in agreement.

If you weren't addressing me, were still in agreement

 

[micguy]

If you weren't addressing me, were still in agreement

I agree we're in agreement. If we continue to agree, they throw us off the internet. That's just not how it's done. ;-)

 

[Lowbrow]

I agree we're in agreement. If we continue to agree, they throw us off the internet. That's just not how it's done. ;-)

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Crazy how distorted and well-defined his tone is. Another song, he sounded almost Geddy-ish, kinda like edge of breakup...

This is why my little VOX hybrid can get close, because it has a feature where it feeds some of the low-end in clean when the Compressor & Drive switches are on, so you don't lose the low-end.
It also sounds surprisingly like the *Limelight pre-set on the Fender Rumble Stage or Studio amps, with all the knobs at noon. That was my preferred setting on the Rumble Studio, so I dispensed with it & just have the VOX now.


*It's a RUSH song, but I'm uncertain if it's Limelight (something from Moving Pictures)

add:

Forgot to add that when I plug my cheaper bass into the same amp it sounds nothing like Pinnick's pre, even with all the settings the same, so it's quite transparent, I think.

 

[pbass2]

I used the OG Sadowsky outboard pre for years on passive basses. Great sound, people loved it. But I never would have considered it transparent. To me it had the distinct "Sadowsky sound". Now, my Xotic RC--that is transparent, as was the Xotic Tri-Logic I used to own.