non-transparent pre-amps

[fishdreams]

I have a few outboard pres I use for recording or performing, and they all sound very different.

This is one, which is modeled after a Neve1073 circuit. If you plug in a jazz bass and do fingerstyle close to the bridge, you'll immediately get that jaco burp as you remember it from his records (he plugged straight into the board in the studio)

Sounds great, and it's far from transparent.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pre73JR--golden-age-project-pre-73-jr-mic-pre

 

[Chrisk-K]

What’s the point of using a preamp that doesn’t add a color to the sound?

 

[Blind owl bass]

if anyone likes that sansamp tone, I bought a rackmount sansamp rbi, brand new, and didnt like it. deals over in the classified section

 

[CapnSev]

I have an old passive SUB and it sounds.. like a Stingray. With the dials set in the middle, does the Stingray preamp really color the tone? Maybe I should get it routed out

It’s actually a different, hotter pickup in the passive USA SUB to accommodate the lack of preamp. It does do really, really well at the classic Stingray sound though. I’ve had both the passive and active versions of the SUB at the same time, and when you plug one in then the other, there’s definitely a difference. I love them both, but sold the passive one. Still have the active.

Then again, the active SUB has the 2-band preamp which is hard to set “flat”, but that’s the magic of it really.

 

[CapnSev]

To the original question though, the first thing that immediately popped in my mind was the BDDI. Everything you plug into it sounds like BDDI.

I kinda feel that way to a lesser extent about the SVT too, so I’ll be putting my suit of armor on now so the rock throwing can commence.

 

[ThudThudThud]

if anyone likes that sansamp tone, I bought a rackmount sansamp rbi, brand new, and didnt like it. deals over in the classified section

I'd bet you'd have liked the Sansamp RPM. It could do "that Sansamp tone" but didn't have to.

 

[bassfreakah]

it is odd to think of sending a distorted bass signal to the FOH, Phil Lesh didn't do that did HE?

 

[CapnSev]

it is odd to think of sending a distorted bass signal to the FOH, Phil Lesh didn't do that did HE?

No idea, but people do it all the time.

 

[LowActionHero]

I never noticed a bass boost with the pre-amp in a L-2000 or ASAT bass, but depending on the Impedance of the amp input you could get a volume increase.
If they used 500k Ohm pots they wouldn't need a treble-boost in the pre-amp.

My L2000 definitely gets a boost when I go active. It doesn't sound much different to me, so I mostly only go active for the volume boost or occasional noise reduction if needed. I'm almost always playing passive.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

The volume increase on my ASAT & L-2000 was very subtle, I noticed more of a volume jump between Active & Passive on my current bass through the Effects Return on the Rumble Studio amp.
So my guess is that it's up to input Impedance, as to how high that volume jump is.

 

[Rabidhamster]

Transparency is important to me, if I lost my preferred amp or pre-amp, I'd be glad to get my sound back with another amp/pre-amp.

When I compare instruments at home I use a USB interface with no processing, so I get the raw sound of the instrument, not the baked-in sound of the processing.

Recently I bought a bass after seeing demos of it on YT, but AFTER I bought it I realized the pre-amp was 80% of the sound, not the bass.
because other basses sounded the same, with completely different pickups

So, what pre-amps are out there that really change the sound of the instrument?

I’ve got a universal audio solo/610 I use as a DI preamp and it drastically changes the tone for the better compared with recording straight in to an interface. Even keeping the gain low and the output high.
I never find recording straight into an audio capture interface to my liking, though it’s passable on basses with built in preamps.

 

[andruca]

There was no going back for me as soon as I ran my Stingray5 thru' a SansAmp BDDI. That was 2003 and in 2004 I got my own RBI, my main preamp ever since, traveled half the world with it (literally, from Russia to Chile, from Mexico to Greece) and recorded a dozen albums (also recorded other people thru' it). It fits Stingrays/Sterlings particularly good, not that I ever experienced any "incompatibility" with the many other basses I've ran thru' the thing, veryy versatile indeed. Can do clean sorta' transparent tones too but the thick crunchy game is where it shines. SO.sweet. Now, I'm one of those who couldn't care less about transparency or flat response. Like amps and cans with punchy lows/low-mids, a bump to the 100hz zone is my kind of "flat". For me it's about amplifying bass (and cutting thru' rock bands), not the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra. Without exception, everybody who's played with me loves my tone. Only other thing I might like as much is some of the Darkglass models (particularly the B7K and Alpha&Omega), just can't afford nor justify owning both. The RBI allows me to be OK with almost any amp that produces lots of clean volume with serious low end authority (only amps/combos/cabs I've ever owned are either Hartke or Peavey, loud reliable cost-effective workhorses, no need for any boutique'ish fanciness there, just amplify and not get shy when thickening things up).

 

[RoketRdr]

The 3 band Glockenklang pre is as close to completely transparent as I've ever heard. The sadowsky is right up there alongside it, although I have less experience with those fellas.

I second what he said. The Glockenklang is transparent whether in active or passive mode with the tone knobs centered. You get a pure instrument sound. I've never heard another on-board as close to transparent as the Glock.

 

[RoketRdr]

Every preamp has a different freq/impedance graph which will make the freq response of the pickups different, and none of them is a flat graph, which is why different preamps sound different.

look at Audere Audio Technical Details about Impedance in Electric Guitars for a better explanation.

Having said that I put a 3 band Glockenklang pre in my Dingwall AB1-6 and while the volume is the same between passive and active there is a slight change in tone - the low end seems to get tightened up, but its pretty subtle. The difference is the impedance load on the pickups is either in the bass preamp (Glockenklang) or the first thing your bass is plugged into. I would totally recommend the Glockenklang preamp - super clean, great EQ (the treble EQ is at 10khz which is a little high, but it does work), and very high quality components - I forgot the brand of the volume pot, but i looked for it online and i found it for $110 just for the pot. It is not cheap - i think I paid $200 - but very much worth it.

If you want to plug straight into a computer interface input you would be better off getting a high quality DI - like a Rupert Neve DI for example - then depending on the $2 circuitry on your computer interface.

The treble EQ is actually at 18Khz but I totally agree with everything you said. Great preamp thats super clean and high quality while giving you the ability to get about as transparent as you could possibly get.

 

[RoketRdr]

What’s the point of using a preamp that doesn’t add a color to the sound?

To boost the natural sound of your bass especially if its passive.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Right, I want to hear the instrument, not the manipulation by the pre-amp, until I do want that, LOL!
It'd be nice to have a pre-amp that sounds really great, but if it always sounds that way eventually I'll get tired of it.

The thread is moot, since I'm not really looking, just thought it would be an interesting discussion, probably should have chosen the amps sub-forum instead.
Sometimes I feel like I'd be happy plugging into just a power-amp, but I'd miss overdrive.

 

[sears]

Even though I haven't used one I have to echo what @andruca said. I have complimented many bass players on their tone on some recording of theirs and quite frequently their reply is: it was a Sansamp.

 

[andruca]

Even though I haven't used one I have to echo what @andruca said. I have complimented many bass players on their tone on some recording of theirs and quite frequently their reply is: it was a Sansamp.

Not that it makes any "magic" per se (OD+blend+EQ) but it's real plug&play compared to others, easier to get good tones out of than similar preamps (IME much easier than MXR or Tonehammer). Darkglass being the only comparable thing out there for me. Also the SansAmp overdrive is real grainy (as in not guitar'ish fuzzy or hissy distortion). Both the SA and DG are as clean as you like, not only thru' gain but the blend is essential IMHO, helps take out the scoop (a common complaint) when overdriven in those units that don't have a mid EQ control.

 

[Hundred proof]

Coming from a background in ultra high end home stereo hi-fi, I can tell you there is NO totally neutral in sound reproduction. It’s one of the reasons I shake my head when I hear all the clamor about the purity of going straight FOH.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

This isn't sound reproduction, however.
We're producing the original sound, not a reproduction of it.

but yes, all of these will have a bias on the sound:
speakers
cabinet design
pickups
type of strings (construction & alloy)
even where the player is striking the strings & how
almost forgot, construction of the instrument (woods, scale, etc.)