Normal to have HORRENDOUS timing when first metronoming?

[mambo4]

Musical abilities such as tone discrimination, tonal memory and rhythm are aptitudes - not everyone has taken the time and effort to learn them.

fixed.

 

[HaVIC5]

I have perfect time, it helps when you played concert snare and did marching line percussion for 11 years in school though it gets better with time

I'm going to call BS on this one.

Now, I don't doubt that playing concert snare for 11 years means that you have very way of intuiting and understanding time and rhythm as it pertains to bass. But perfect? Yeah, right.

First of all, there are so many ways to feel time and subdivide that there could never be such thing as perfect time. To think that metronomic time is "perfect" is misguided - if that were so, we'd just quantize everything to be perfectly aligned, and all music would be perfectly groovey. This, of course, is not true at all. Different styles of subdivision and playing on, behind or in front of the pulse at different points in the measure are necessary to capture the correct feel for different styles of music.

Take ?uestlove, for instance. His playing and timefeel is INSANELY tight, and sounds just like a drum machine in the best way possible. One of the best hip-hop drummers around. But have him play ding ding-a-ling jazz time (The Philadelphia Experiment) it sounds like a Garage Band MIDI sample.

I know I'm over-exaggerating with this, but the point is that there are a bunch of ways of interpreting rhythmic feels. The hyper-syncopated melodic lines of a Brazilian bossa nova singer would be very poorly interpreted by a person only used to sixteenth note interpretation in funk styles, or rock styles, or jazz styles, or classical styles, or whatever. Even if the sixteenth notes perfectly line up, it's not going to sound right. If you're talking about that lovely gospel tradition of playing the absurdly behind the beat fill, having the sixteenth notes line up is wrong in fact.

Yes, you might have really good time. But all the concert snare drum experience in the world won't save you if you're required to keep the tumbao with seasoned afro-cuban percussionists if you're playing salsa for the first time.

Which, by the way, is the most humbling thing you'll ever do. I suggest trying it sometime.

 

[sammyp]

people have many varying levels of self awareness and ability when it comes to timing ....from getting it immediately to maybe never getting it at all .....as long as you're improving and know when you're off or on you're good to go...keep at it.

 

[sammyp]

But all the concert snare drum experience in the world won't save you if you're required to keep the tumbao with seasoned afro-cuban percussionists if you're playing salsa for the first time.

Which, by the way, is the most humbling thing you'll ever do. I suggest trying it sometime.

some of that stuff is just nuts!

 

[JonahTheAmazing]

Timing can improve, as well as basically every possible facet of playing music. It's not about being PERFECT, but rather reliable when it comes to playing in a rhythm section I think.

 

[Crazyeelboy]

I've been playing for about 6 months now, and just now have I started playing with a Metronome and along with tracks to improve my timing. And I am utter POOP. I can't even explain how awfully I am at timing. I recorded myself once and it sounded terrible, speed jerks everywhere. Am I permanently screwed for having bad timing, or can I improve this?

You can learn this! Remember you are just starting out and this music thing is a marathon, not a sprint. When learning parts - or reconsidering parts you know, start out slow enough to get everything down perfectly. In addition to the good advice from others, you can learn a lot of timing by focusing on themusic you hear. Tap along and count out the beats and pretty soon, you'll see results. Most important - don't get discouraged!

 

[Crazyeelboy]

If you're really that awful, perhaps bass guitar is not for you... timing is pretty crucial.

I would recommend other hobbies, such as tennis, painting, or fishing.

What's the point of telling a guy only six months into this that he ought to give up? We all get that timing is critical, but what is to be gained by discouraging a new player looking for advice?

 

[BassOfSpades]

tap your foot and bob your head worked for me

 

[miltslackford]

Musical abilities such as tone discrimination, tonal memory and rhythm are aptitudes - not everyone has them. Yes, you can improve your rhythm a bit with practice, but if you really don't have it, be assured that you will have some other aptitudes that others may not have - you just have to find them.

I agree that there are some people that have more initial aptitude than others, but I've never had a single student with good timing straight off the bat, and I've had some who seemed hopeless to start but did the right things and ended up with stronger timing than most of my other students.

In my experience if people know how then they can get rhythm. And if they do the right things. I think one area where the biggest myths are is rhythm and people saying either you have it or you don't. In my experience it's a cop out by teachers who don't understand how to impart these skills in people who don't already know how to do it. There's not much value in a teacher like that. In my experience, rhythm can be taught if you understand how it is learned.

 

[Where July]

Musical abilities such as tone discrimination, tonal memory and rhythm are aptitudes - not everyone has them. Yes, you can improve your rhythm a bit with practice, but if you really don't have it, be assured that you will have some other aptitudes that others may not have - you just have to find them.

Fortunatelly for any aspiring musician all the musical abilities are not aptitudes. For quite a long time this has been a proven fact though not wide known. Here is the link for long scientific article that proves this with researches and facts observation.
Link Removed
You may also google for "deliberate practice" and read some skimming info on this to get the idea.

Another interesting fact is how brain recognizes sounds and music. It its the physiology of human that makes elements of music (rythm, pitch sence, even perfect pitch, intervals, keys interactions etc.) non-innate, a capability anyone can learn. Look for "psychoacoustics" and read about it if interested. This expains why physiologically music capabilities are non-innate.

The bottomline is: if you once failed with your rythm, or whatever music consist of you can never blame natural inability, lacking innate talent or whatever you tried to blame. You have to know it is completelly your amount of work and how clever you have organized it that has to be blamed (or praised) on the result. No talent, no innate capabilities. Nothing. Just you as good as you are. This is good news in fact. It leaves you with a clear view who/what should be addressed to get things the way you want them to be.

On rythm very useful source: Keeping The Beat

You definitelly can be as good as you can only imagine.

Have a good jorney

 

[kr0n]

I found out that relaxation was the key in grasping the concept of rhythm. I ain't perfect, I makes mistakes and I don't consider myself good enough. But the overthinking and relaxing for the feel helped me out.

Just clap your hands, when you don't hear the click, you're on the spot and clapping doesn't require as much muscle control to sound perfect.

 

[miltslackford]

Fortunatelly for any aspiring musician all the musical abilities are not aptitudes. For quite a long time this has been a proven fact though not wide known. Here is the link for long scientific article that proves this with researches and facts observation.
Link Removed
You may also google for "deliberate practice" and read some skimming info on this to get the idea.

Another interesting fact is how brain recognizes sounds and music. It its the physiology of human that makes elements of music (rythm, pitch sence, even perfect pitch, intervals, keys interactions etc.) non-innate, a capability anyone can learn. Look for "psychoacoustics" and read about it if interested. This expains why physiologically music capabilities are non-innate.

The bottomline is: if you once failed with your rythm, or whatever music consist of you can never blame natural inability, lacking innate talent or whatever you tried to blame. You have to know it is completelly your amount of work and how clever you have organized it that has to be blamed (or praised) on the result. No talent, no innate capabilities. Nothing. Just you as good as you are. This is good news in fact. It leaves you with a clear view who/what should be addressed to get things the way you want them to be.

On rythm very useful source: Keeping The Beat

You definitelly can be as good as you can only imagine.

Have a good jorney

Great post I look forward to reading that. I've long suspected it was the case. It's an exciting prospect - empowering way of seeing things.

 

[Tom_RCJ]

Fortunatelly for any aspiring musician all the musical abilities are not aptitudes. For quite a long time this has been a proven fact though not wide known. Here is the link for long scientific article that proves this with researches and facts observation.
Link Removed
You may also google for "deliberate practice" and read some skimming info on this to get the idea.

Another interesting fact is how brain recognizes sounds and music. It its the physiology of human that makes elements of music (rythm, pitch sence, even perfect pitch, intervals, keys interactions etc.) non-innate, a capability anyone can learn. Look for "psychoacoustics" and read about it if interested. This expains why physiologically music capabilities are non-innate.

The bottomline is: if you once failed with your rythm, or whatever music consist of you can never blame natural inability, lacking innate talent or whatever you tried to blame. You have to know it is completelly your amount of work and how clever you have organized it that has to be blamed (or praised) on the result. No talent, no innate capabilities. Nothing. Just you as good as you are. This is good news in fact. It leaves you with a clear view who/what should be addressed to get things the way you want them to be.

On rythm very useful source: Keeping The Beat

You definitelly can be as good as you can only imagine.

Have a good jorney

Very nice. Thank you for the links.

 

[sammyp]

I agree that there are some people that have more initial aptitude than others, but I've never had a single student with good timing straight off the bat, and I've had some who seemed hopeless to start but did the right things and ended up with stronger timing than most of my other students.

In my experience if people know how then they can get rhythm. And if they do the right things. I think one area where the biggest myths are is rhythm and people saying either you have it or you don't. In my experience it's a cop out by teachers who don't understand how to impart these skills in people who don't already know how to do it. There's not much value in a teacher like that. In my experience, rhythm can be taught if you understand how it is learned.

I have had many students with fairly good time of the hop.....it pleasently surprises me......usually kids or adults who have loved music all their life and got around to playing late....I'm only talking about quater, eighth nore strums then with a bit of syncopation.

 

[miltslackford]

I have had many students with fairly good time of the hop.....it pleasently surprises me......usually kids or adults who have loved music all their life and got around to playing late....I'm only talking about quater, eighth nore strums then with a bit of syncopation.

Actually yeah it's true I've had a few people like that. I think what I meant was I haven't had any total beginners come along who just had metronomic timing and didn't need to work on any aspects of their rhythm. If there were people who just 'had rhythm' then that's what you'd expect. You're right musical appreciation and a natural habit of observing music probably really helps - in a way this is a skill being learned rather than innate in a different context.

 

[Jhengsman]

Maybe you're not actually feeling the click but you are hearing just that tap, tap and rushing to correct yourself to it, only to find techniques or reading getting in the way. Have you played along with others who have given you feedback on timing?

 

[gigslut]

What kind of metronome are you using? The electronic ones are very accurate. The old Seth Thomas windups may or may not be. I've heard some that were atrocious due to overwinding, lack of cleaning or other maintenance.

 

[gigslut]

tap your foot and bob your head worked for me

+1
I was taught early on that your body keeps better time than your head (brain) and that the more of your body you use to keep time, the better it will be. Tapping your foot is OK, moving your head is better, swaying your torso even better. It's all about momentum. A larger mass maintains a steadier velocity.

 

[pedroims]

"One might have a very direct, very innate and natural sense of what music is, like Hendrix, or be like me, a guitar player who began music tone deaf and with no sense of rhythm, completely out of touch with it. For Hendrix the problem was how to refine his particular capacity for expressing what he knew. For me it's how to get in touch with something that I know is there but also I'm out of touch with."

Robert Fripp

So OP Keep practicing.

 

[bassinplace]

I'm going to call BS on this one.

Now, I don't doubt that playing concert snare for 11 years means that you have very way of intuiting and understanding time and rhythm as it pertains to bass. But perfect? Yeah, right.

First of all, there are so many ways to feel time and subdivide that there could never be such thing as perfect time. To think that metronomic time is "perfect" is misguided - if that were so, we'd just quantize everything to be perfectly aligned, and all music would be perfectly groovey. This, of course, is not true at all. Different styles of subdivision and playing on, behind or in front of the pulse at different points in the measure are necessary to capture the correct feel for different styles of music.

Take ?uestlove, for instance. His playing and timefeel is INSANELY tight, and sounds just like a drum machine in the best way possible. One of the best hip-hop drummers around. But have him play ding ding-a-ling jazz time (The Philadelphia Experiment) it sounds like a Garage Band MIDI sample.

I know I'm over-exaggerating with this, but the point is that there are a bunch of ways of interpreting rhythmic feels. The hyper-syncopated melodic lines of a Brazilian bossa nova singer would be very poorly interpreted by a person only used to sixteenth note interpretation in funk styles, or rock styles, or jazz styles, or classical styles, or whatever. Even if the sixteenth notes perfectly line up, it's not going to sound right. If you're talking about that lovely gospel tradition of playing the absurdly behind the beat fill, having the sixteenth notes line up is wrong in fact.

Yes, you might have really good time. But all the concert snare drum experience in the world won't save you if you're required to keep the tumbao with seasoned afro-cuban percussionists if you're playing salsa for the first time.

Which, by the way, is the most humbling thing you'll ever do. I suggest trying it sometime.

I don't personally know any bands that play salsa, but I am going to try this with a recording. Any songs in particular you might suggest? Thanks for the tip!