Novice Player: Why do my higher strings sound so "thin"?

[OldSchoolFlats]

I'm getting back to "bass-ics" after 10 years of not playing...
...one thing I am working on is string-to string consistency:

• Volume level
• Tonal characteristics

Having grown-up in a world of flat-wounds and 15-inch speakers, one of my "go-to" sounds has the highs rolled-off and the bass boosted. Of course, the lower strings "boom", but the higher strings sound "thin". [Note: I'm playing at low practice volume right now. I realize our ears respond to frequencies differently as volume increases. It's been years, but I seem to recall this problem goes away at higher volume levels.]

How do you even things out (at low volume)? Are the high strings softer because of EQ (highs rolled off, bass boosted), with no recourse? It helps some when I pluck the high strings harder AND pluck them closer to the neck, but the D and G strings still sounds "thin".

Obviously a compressor can equal things out, but that seems like a crutch, and kills the dynamics.

When I dial-in "screaming scooped Marcus Miller highs", I don't have this problem.

I'm guessing it is my EQ, since I'm trying to bring out the old-school fundamental for one of my sounds, but I thought I'd throw this question out there...

 

[SteveCS]

Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights. It is normal for the treble side to be up to 2mm closer to the strings than the bass side.

 

[JKos]

Are the high strings softer because of EQ (highs rolled off, bass boosted), with no recourse?

That certainly doesn't help.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights. It is normal for the treble side to be up to 2mm closer to the strings than the bass side.

Never occurred to me. Guess I was asleep that day in "bass school".

In measuring, the B and G are both about 8mm from the bottom of the strings. My neck radius is 9.5", so the other strings are a bit further away.

At the risk of being totally dense, is having the pups closer to the higher strings really a "thing"?

 

[SteveCS]

Never occurred to me. Guess I was asleep that day in "bass school".

In measuring, the B and G are both about 8mm from the bottom of the strings. My neck radius is 9.5", so the other strings are a bit further away.

At the risk of being totally dense, is having the pups closer to the higher strings really a "thing"?

Always was, and still is, for me...

8mm is not really going to get the best from the pickups or strings. 4 to 6mm on the bass side and 3 to 4mm on the treble side will make a much richer tone. Don't go too close or you will start to get nasty wolf tones and warbling chorus-like overtones.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Always was, and still is, for me...
View attachment 4306838 View attachment 4306839

8mm is not really going to get the best from the pickups or strings. 4 to 6mm on the bass side and 3 to 4mm on the treble side will make a much richer tone. Don't go too close or you will start to get nasty wolf tones and warbling chorus-like overtones.

Well, ignoring the fact I was reading 64ths of an inch, not mm, and the treble side was alread in the range you indicated...

...I lowered the bass side as you indicated, and I THINK it made a big difference. I'm tired, so I don't trust my ears, but I am optimistic.

I can see though, that at least on my Sire P7, pickup height adjustment hasn't improved much over the decades. The screws and springs are still a bit "dodgy" after all these years (as compared with the precision of saddle adjustments), so I don't want to mess with it more tonight.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm getting back to "bass-ics" after 10 years of not playing...
...one thing I am working on is string-to string consistency:

• Volume level
• Tonal characteristics

Having grown-up in a world of flat-wounds and 15-inch speakers, one of my "go-to" sounds has the highs rolled-off and the bass boosted. Of course, the lower strings "boom", but the higher strings sound "thin". [Note: I'm playing at low practice volume right now. I realize our ears respond to frequencies differently as volume increases. It's been years, but I seem to recall this problem goes away at higher volume levels.]

How do you even things out (at low volume)? Are the high strings softer because of EQ (highs rolled off, bass boosted), with no recourse? It helps some when I pluck the high strings harder AND pluck them closer to the neck, but the D and G strings still sounds "thin".

Obviously a compressor can equal things out, but that seems like a crutch, and kills the dynamics.

When I dial-in "screaming scooped Marcus Miller highs", I don't have this problem.

I'm guessing it is my EQ, since I'm trying to bring out the old-school fundamental for one of my sounds, but I thought I'd throw this question out there...

You don't. A D and G have far less bass than E. They are not only much thinner strings, they are also tuned higher. To even things out, as much as possible, you tweak your pickup height so that your E string is the lower than everything else. People will say to raise the G side also, but don't. It's already the closest string to the pickup without adjusting anything. And, you actually have to drop it away from the strings to get more bass out of it. Downside is you get less output. It's a give and take til you find the perfect set up for you and your playing. Me, I lower the E, raise the A, raise D slightly higher than that, and straight drop the G. You work out tone with how and where you pluck the strings. But for me, I'm able to keep my output fairly even across the board set up like that.

Everyone's different.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Y'all are awesome!

I played with it a smidge more. The springs under the pups don't want to go higher than about 7/64 on the treble side: at that point the spring is "maxed-out". 7/64 seems high enough, but I wish the spring was stronger. I had to pull up on the pups to get to 7/64 on the treble side. Got the bass side around 9/64.

Happily, it seems much more even now. Will have to play with the EQ a bit after I get some sleep...

 

[Drucifer]

At the risk of being totally dense, is having the pups closer to the higher strings really a "thing"?

Only for people who care about volume being similar across strings. Basses are set up this way in the beginning and usually don't require much tweaking. Some people use a compressor to achieve the same result.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Only for people who care about volume being similar across strings. Basses are set up this way in the beginning and usually don't require much tweaking. Some people use a compressor to achieve the same result.

Yep, did a little research. Not only is it a "thing", it's the "norm" (at least per the Fender setup manual).

Makes all the difference! Like I said above, I must have been asleep that day at "bass school". I'm a fanatic about strings, setup, basic pickup-type, EQ, effects and where/how the string is plucked, but I missed this one over the years.

FAIL...

 

[Drucifer]

Yep, did a little research. Not only is it a "thing", it's the "norm" (at least per the Fender setup manual).

Makes all the difference! Like I said above, I must have been asleep that day at "bass school". I'm a fanatic about strings, setup, basic pickup-type, EQ, effects and where/how the string is plucked, but I missed this one over the years.

FAIL...

Many basses use foam as the "spring" underneath the pickup, it helps prevent microphonics, but over time it will decompose and lose its springiness. I've noticed the volume differential problem on older basses, tried to make an adjustment, and had nothing happen because there was no spring left.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

Many basses use foam as the "spring" underneath the pickup, it helps prevent microphonics, but over time it will decompose and lose its springiness. I've noticed the volume differential problem on older basses, tried to make an adjustment, and had nothing happen because there was no spring left.

Take the strings off, loosen the screws, pull out the pup(s) being careful not to break a wire, add foam, and re-assemble?

 

[Drucifer]

Take the strings off, loosen the screws, pull out the pup(s) being careful not to break a wire, add foam, and re-assemble?

Yup, or replace the foam with springs.

 

[BassFalcon]

Yup, or replace the foam with springs.

Or surgical tubing over the screws instead of springs.

 

[shoulderpet]

I'm getting back to "bass-ics" after 10 years of not playing...
...one thing I am working on is string-to string consistency:

• Volume level
• Tonal characteristics

Having grown-up in a world of flat-wounds and 15-inch speakers, one of my "go-to" sounds has the highs rolled-off and the bass boosted. Of course, the lower strings "boom", but the higher strings sound "thin". [Note: I'm playing at low practice volume right now. I realize our ears respond to frequencies differently as volume increases. It's been years, but I seem to recall this problem goes away at higher volume levels.]

How do you even things out (at low volume)? Are the high strings softer because of EQ (highs rolled off, bass boosted), with no recourse? It helps some when I pluck the high strings harder AND pluck them closer to the neck, but the D and G strings still sounds "thin".

Obviously a compressor can equal things out, but that seems like a crutch, and kills the dynamics.

When I dial-in "screaming scooped Marcus Miller highs", I don't have this problem.

I'm guessing it is my EQ, since I'm trying to bring out the old-school fundamental for one of my sounds, but I thought I'd throw this question out there...

What bass are you using? Basses with more articulation tend to suffer worse with this, on my Hofner the D and G strings are very close tonally to the E and A, very then sounding instrument.

Also are you rolling off the highs on the amp or the basses tone control? Rolling them off on the tone control instead of the amp will give you a more even tone across the strings(assuming this is a passive bass)

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

What bass are you using? Basses with more articulation tend to suffer worse with this, on my Hofner the D and G strings are very close tonally to the E and A, very then sounding instrument.

Also are you rolling off the highs on the amp or the basses tone control? Rolling them off on the tone control instead of the amp will give you a more even tone across the strings(assuming this is a passive bass)

Sire P7 5-string P/J bass. I roll-off on the bass: amp is pretty flat.

Adjusting the pickups seems to have done the trick.

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights. It is normal for the treble side to be up to 2mm closer to the strings than the bass side.

^^^
This is what helped me with my latest bass. D and G were thin, now they are just fine.

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

^^^
This is what helped me with my latest bass. D and G were thin, now they are just fine.

FYI only, since I just did the conversions between inches and metric last night, and consulted the Fender setup manual, I think the delta is 2/64", not 2mm. Of course, people have settings to suit their needs.

For me, the difference of 2/64" was sufficient.

 

[Rick_Bass]

"I think the delta is 2/64"
or 1/32
or 4/128ths... I'm liking the high divisible denominators with a slight increase in numerator.

 

[Hounddog409]

Never occurred to me. Guess I was asleep that day in "bass school".

In measuring, the B and G are both about 8mm from the bottom of the strings. My neck radius is 9.5", so the other strings are a bit further away.

At the risk of being totally dense, is having the pups closer to the higher strings really a "thing"?

You need to find the OEM spec on pickup height. That is the place to start.

Too far away from strings does not help tone.