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NPD Huge disappointment and return. EHX Mono Synth
- Thread starter armybass
- Start date
The Zoom B3n has outstanding synth capabilities, plus they actually do just about everything else well too, except the octave is just fair. But at their price point I don’t know why everyone doesn’t have one.
Not really. Even the earliest synthesizers utilized multiple multi-waveform oscillators as their sound source. That allows for a huge range of sounds and timbres beyond what’s possible by sampling a guitar string and maybe tracking its pitch. Non-MIDI guitar synths aren’t really synths at all as the term ‘synthesizer’ is generally understood in electronic music circles. Calling an effects pedal a synth is more of a marketing strategy on the part of effects companies.
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I'll be "that guy" and say that no stand-alone pedal will ever remotely replicate an actual synth. I've owned the C4 and Future Impact and while I greatly prefer the FI there's still no substitute for the real thing.
For bar/cover gigs there's no reason one of the many available synth pedals can't be reasonably replied upon. They're totally passable. Beyond that pick up a fair priced dedicated bass synth unit, which are readily available these days.
For bar/cover gigs there's no reason one of the many available synth pedals can't be reasonably replied upon. They're totally passable. Beyond that pick up a fair priced dedicated bass synth unit, which are readily available these days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthesizerNot really. Even the earliest synthesizers utilized multiple multi-waveform oscillators as their sound source. That allows for a huge range of sounds and timbres beyond what’s possible by sampling a guitar string and maybe tracking its pitch. Non-MIDI guitar synths aren’t really synths at all as the term ‘synthesizer’ is generally understood in electronic music circles. Calling an effects pedal a synth is more of a marketing strategy on the part if effects companies.
There is a common misconception that synthesizers are controlled by a piano type keyboard - sorry you need to check some history. Many synthesizers do not have a keyboard of any sort, early ones used punch cards, Buchla synths use touch plates, so why are you so quick to dismiss vibrating strings?
A rose by any other name as the Bard might say. Snobbish folk into EM only seem to recognize analog synthesis and dismiss any digital as poor relations for the dilettante and uninitiated. Too bad because devices like the Source Audio C4 and Panda Audio Future Impact paired with their computer programs are fully functional & capable SYNTHESIZERS. Many other effect boxes are similar to modular synth modules, some synthesists even incorporate guitar style pedals into their modular rigs. The Panda Audio Future Impact can be controlled with a midi keyboard (gasp)!
Both the C4 and FI fulfill your own definition of synthesis, check the facts.
The EHX Bass Mono Synth is what would commonly be referred to as a SAMPLER and is useful technology.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampler_(musical_instrument)
Yeah, C4 and FI have ie. configurable oscillators and sequencers, hardly a "sampler" or glorified filter fuzz. The FI is full ADSR. To me, and many, the thing missing is a more advanced FM functionality. Those bouncy 80s synths are what I am missing. Of course dedicated keyboard synths sound richer, but not because they are fundamentally DIFFERENT from the FI, but because they have MORE layers of "tools".
To my ear, the stock EDM swell in C4 IS the VH "Jump" lead, one of the FI presets (23?) IS the FGTH "Relax" bass synth (the E, C#, D riff), the BSW will do "Technologic" as recorded, and so on.
An old automatic gearbox is still automatic with 2 speeds, as automatic a newer with 5 speeds. The dual clutch, 8-9 speed transmissions are a different thing, though.
Not too different from different levels of analogue synths, vs newer digital ones.
To my ear, the stock EDM swell in C4 IS the VH "Jump" lead, one of the FI presets (23?) IS the FGTH "Relax" bass synth (the E, C#, D riff), the BSW will do "Technologic" as recorded, and so on.
An old automatic gearbox is still automatic with 2 speeds, as automatic a newer with 5 speeds. The dual clutch, 8-9 speed transmissions are a different thing, though.
Not too different from different levels of analogue synths, vs newer digital ones.
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While I do use some synth tones from hx stomp and h9, I really found that it just sounds way better every time using a real synth. Many times for simple lines I play a volca bass connected to my board, small as a pedal and sounds great.
I wouldn’t know about the snobbishness of the electronic music community, me being neither a snob nor a member of it. Nor was I ever under the impression that a synthesizer required a keyboard to be considered one, or that only analog technology qualified. The bulk of the technology producing sound in today’s synthesizers is either partially or entirely digital. Has been for a few decades even. And a great deal of the music coming out of the diehard electronic music community is computer, tracker, or sequencer based and doesn’t use a keyboard at all. So why all these strawmen?
My point was simply that you can incorporate synthesizer technology into something to make it more or less synth-like without it actually being able to provide the flexibility and capabilities a synthesizer has. This often leads to people becoming disappointed when they bump into the limitations of such synth pedals. Something that happens often and fairly quickly from what I’ve both experienced and seen when it comes to these pedals depending on one’s expectations.
That’s why I recommended earlier that if the OP seriously wanted to do synthesis on his bass that he at least consider trying a known good MIDI based solution like the Roland GR series of synths and GK-3B pickup (which is digital btw) to get there. It not only works, it’ll end up being less expensive in the long run.
And yes, you can plug guitars into synths. All that’s required is an envelope follower and a trigger extractor plus something to boost your audio signal up to line level. Folks have been doing that since the modular era. If you want to also control the pitch of any oscillators it gets a bit more complicated. But it’s still very doable. And as you pointed out, there’s modules you can purchase to provide both functions. The Befaco I4 Instrument Interface
module is one popular example. But unless you already own or have access to a synth that allows for external audio and control inputs it’s not a very cost effective way to go about it.
I've got a Synth Voice Deluxe and an FMeron. As far as I'm aware, both of them are synths and neither of them sample guitar strings.
I've also got multiple "actual" synths but bass synth pedals are cool in their own right.
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Bassist4Eris
Frat-Pack Sympathizer
I love my EHX Mono Synth, but I do have to adapt my technique to it. However, this has been the case with every single tracking-based pedal I've ever owned or tried. You kind of have to learn to "play the pedal", and I doubt any manufacturer will have a magic bullet for that any time soon.
Where are they getting the tracking information for their pitch selection and triggers from if they’re not sampling some sort of pitch and duration information from the strings? It has to be from somewhere.
However, I see your point if you’re saying the audio is entirely generated by internal oscillators rather than just down sampled, and the bass is acting solely as the control input device. If that’s the case I’d have no trouble calling it a bonafide synthesizer.
Me too. And I agree. They can be very cool. But they can also be extremely disappointing and frustrating at times. Usually when you try to push their limits.
I’m good with that. But just to reemphasize my earlier (and actually my only) point, you need to manage your expectations. Because these are fairly narrowly focused devices. And (IMO anyway) most of them are pretty expensive for what you’re getting.
Yup. Not sure how the bass is analyzed and then triggers the correct pitch, but the sounds themselves (unless I'm very much mistaken) are pedal (synth) generated, in my two pedals by analogue and FM digital synth engines.
Yes, very different from my regular synths but cool if you enjoy them for what they are rather than trying to recreate a MOOG or wherever.
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Well this thread certainly escallated quickly and ended up in left field of a different stadium.
This is TalkBass. We’re you really expecting anything else?
But where is it “escalating”? And escalating to what? You lost me with that one.
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Really? Thought everyone was pretty much on topic: synths, pedals, synth pedals...Well this thread certainly escallated quickly and ended up in left field of a different stadium
Fair enough, and I'd be the first to admit that a different source signal than a plucked string is why we can't get a satisfying 80s "blomp" synth bass effect out of a pedal. There were some pretty simple synthesizers that didn't go much further than one trick in terms of source signal flexibility, though. Korg SB-100?Not really. Even the earliest synthesizers utilized multiple multi-waveform oscillators as their sound source. That allows for a huge range of sounds and timbres beyond what’s possible by sampling a guitar string and maybe tracking its pitch. Non-MIDI guitar synths aren’t really synths at all as the term ‘synthesizer’ is generally understood in electronic music circles. Calling an effects pedal a synth is more of a marketing strategy on the part of effects companies.
My point is your dismissal of one style or approach to synthesis while preferring another has no basis other than your opinion, you stated it as a broad consensus which by information I provided it should not be. Your continuing insistence that MIDI conversion and connection to what you consider a "true synth" is spurious. By your rules a Buchla is not a synthesizer, neither is a Theremin - you are wrong. I'm making this point because you failed to understand just exactly what a synthesizer really is despite the article I posted.I wouldn’t know about the snobbishness of the electronic music community, me being neither a snob nor a member of it. Nor was I ever under the impression that a synthesizer required a keyboard to be considered one, or that only analog technology qualified. The bulk of the technology producing sound in today’s synthesizers is either partially or entirely digital. Has been for a few decades even. And a great deal of the music coming out of the diehard electronic music community is computer, tracker, or sequencer based and doesn’t use a keyboard at all. So why all these strawmen?
My point was simply that you can incorporate synthesizer technology into something to make it more or less synth-like without it actually being able to provide the flexibility and capabilities a synthesizer has. This often leads to people becoming disappointed when they bump into the limitations of such synth pedals. Something that happens often and fairly quickly from what I’ve both experienced and seen when it comes to these pedals depending on one’s expectations.
That’s why I recommended earlier that if the OP seriously wanted to do synthesis on his bass that he at least consider trying a known good MIDI based solution like the Roland GR series of synths and GK-3B pickup (which is digital btw) to get there. It not only works, it’ll end up being less expensive in the long run.
And yes, you can plug guitars into synths. All that’s required is an envelope follower and a trigger extractor plus something to boost your audio signal up to line level. Folks have been doing that since the modular era. If you want to also control the pitch of any oscillators it gets a bit more complicated. But it’s still very doable. And as you pointed out, there’s modules you can purchase to provide both functions. The Befaco I4 Instrument Interface
module is one popular example. But unless you already own or have access to a synth that allows for external audio and control inputs it’s not a very cost effective way to go about it.
Every synthesizer system ever made has limitations Moog, Arp, Korg, PPG, Yamaha and many others each had different approaches, technology and characteristic sounds that the others could not mimic just as every modular synth is unique because no two are configured the same. The fact that C4 or FI have those same limitations is endemic in every synthesizer design and not a flaw.
Embrace the change of technology. Don't deny it.
Agree with you 100%
But to me, the thing that sets a synth apart as it’s own thing is the timbral qualities it gains from its oscillator(s) and filter(s). That’s where the real differences in its sound comes from. And what sets one synth apart from another.
If you wanted to be academic about it you could argue that a synthesizer, as its name implies, is capable (in theory) of duplicating any sound found, either in or out of nature.
In the real world that’s not practical due to the sheer number of resources that would be required to pull it off. But that’s not the same as it being impossible. And with today’s computer technology it’s likely only a matter of time before someone sets up a small supercomputer cluster with a few thousand sine wave oscillators and several hundred filter banks and VCAs and does it. I’m sure the movie and game industries would love it. Just think…any sound in any acoustic environment with the ability to mix and morph them at will. Pretty crazy stuff. And all it would take is the money and wherewithal to do it. Because the technology and necessary science is already there.
But this is going well off the marked trail this thread is on. So I’m gonna leave it at that. Cool beans though, hey?
