I'm contemplating the idea of picking up a fretted Omni Bass... how do you adjust intonation with the solid bridgepiece?
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Double Bass NS BassCello (now OmniBass) megathread
- Thread starter tappingtrance
- Start date
There may be some room to set the bridge at a slant, but I don't think there's individual adjustment. Fwiw, I wish my EU6 had a smaller radius. The Cello may fix that for me. ;-)
Hey guys, I have been looking at an omni bass 5 lately and thinking whether I should start to save up, but it is REALLY EXPENSIVE. I play both upright and electric bass, but is the omni bass worth it's money?
Benja.
Benja.
benjaking4 said:
There's one on eBay right now with a bow, stand and boomerang strap for bids or BIN for $2000.
I may look on the NS EUB thread as well, but one thing I've had a problem with sound wise on this bass, is getting enough attack sound to get a good sense of time for the other guys to hear. I had been using mostly the transducer pickup, and toward the end of the gig, I changed to nearly half and half, transducer/magnetic and it seemed to do a better job.
Can anyone else weigh in on this issue?
Thanks, Ike
Can anyone else weigh in on this issue?
Thanks, Ike
If anyone is still checking out this thread, I will post my experience with a recently purhased NS Omni 5 fretted.
-McT
-McT
My perspective on the Omni is primarily from being an electric (fretted and fretless) bass player (over 40 years), and also as an acoustic upright player for the last decade (jazz and some orchestral church music of late).
Much good information has been posted throughout this thread. In particular, the 3/24/11 post by “CGDAE” is a very thorough review that I enjoyed reading before purchasing an Omni fretted 5 (new) in October 2012. His technical descriptions are right on the money, and I cannot improve on them. So, as a relative novice with this instrument I will provide some anecdotal observations in hopes that it helps others who are trying to decide on a purchase.
My expectations were to have an instrument that would provide both a respectable acoustic upright sound (arco and pizz) and an electric bass sound, and the Omni does that very, very well. The term “crossover” instrument is a perfect description. If one expects the BEST of both worlds, he/she will be disappointed. If one expects a very good compromise between the two, then they will be quite satisfied. It is a superbly crafted, versatile instrument, and extremely comfortable to play.
When compared to electric basses (Fender P or J), the fretted Omni cannot match their punch despite having two different types of pickups for variety and the frets for clarity. Nonetheless, if I dial it more to the magnetic pickups, play closer to the bridge and dial up the treble, it has plenty of definition to lock in with a drummer. Incidentally, I play through a decade old Ampeg BA110. This amp works great for arco (small combo amps are better for that, in my opinion), but admittedly I heard it fragging a bit at a gig last week. I may end up with a more powerful small combo amp to keep up with the Omni on “electric bass” settings where I’m pushing it harder. Also, I may try using a pick for increased definition.
As for the upright perspective, the AUB purist might scoff at a short scale upright with – heaven forbid – frets, but after reading about fretted viola de gamba instruments from centuries ago, I let the last of my prejudices fall away. The neck radius seems aggressive at first but after less than a hour of playing seems perfectly designed.
The arco settings provide a sound that is deep, rich, and well defined throughout the range, and to me that was the real test of this instrument.
The Omni still requires refined left hand techinique, such as playing on the fret instead of slightly behind it for greatest accuracy when playing arco. I use it on the stand, and I have found that achieving a vibrato without rocking the whole thing is difficult. So I continue to work on my playing style to remedy this. Also, I have no interest in trying the strap/boomerang system, though some players seem to take to it pretty easily.
I gave up acoustic upright due to a left hand injury that kept getting aggravated, but the Omni’s neck size, and less demanding ergonomics allow me to continue in the upright “world” without a problem. With the high C, I can get pretty decent cello-range notes, though placement of the bow is crucial to avoid squeaky overtones that override the actual note. I continue to work on this as well.
I use a 1/2 size fiberglass/horsehair bass bow (not literally half size, just somewhat smaller), and Kolstein rosin. As much as I’ve read about how important the bow is (and they can get really expensive), I decided to deal with what I could afford ($100). It’s kind of that “if Edgar Meyer was handed the Omni and a cheap fiberglass bow, you can bet with his technique he would make it all work.” I’m no Edgar, but feel that an investment like the Omni requires me to develop as a player and adjust to what small quirks/limitations my equipment may have.
The instructions on how to use the Omni’s controls are very helpful as a starting point (more magnetic for electric bass sound; bridge for upright/arco). Still, on songs that require me to go from bass/cello parts to electric bass, I have to quickly reach down and spin the knobs into the best settings (which I have learned) so that there isn’t a large volume drop. Comments on this by other players are found throughout this thread, and it is one thing that is a little challenging until you know where you have to adjust. I will continue to experiment on the settings as I do more gigs with this considering I may be going through a different amp at some point.
My Omni has the original NS string set of low E to high C. As of yet I don’t have an interest in trying other string brands since I feel that with an instrument of this caliber, I would rather work to improve my arco technique and adjusting the variety of pickup settings to improve the sound first.
Finally, it is indeed a serious purchase. I did a lot of research (even asking the seller if there was a return policy) before pulling the trigger. However, even with high expectations for both the electric and the upright sounds, I decided mine was a keeper within an afternoon of playing it.
I hope this adds somewhat to all the great posts that have appeared in this thread for the past few years.
-McT
Much good information has been posted throughout this thread. In particular, the 3/24/11 post by “CGDAE” is a very thorough review that I enjoyed reading before purchasing an Omni fretted 5 (new) in October 2012. His technical descriptions are right on the money, and I cannot improve on them. So, as a relative novice with this instrument I will provide some anecdotal observations in hopes that it helps others who are trying to decide on a purchase.
My expectations were to have an instrument that would provide both a respectable acoustic upright sound (arco and pizz) and an electric bass sound, and the Omni does that very, very well. The term “crossover” instrument is a perfect description. If one expects the BEST of both worlds, he/she will be disappointed. If one expects a very good compromise between the two, then they will be quite satisfied. It is a superbly crafted, versatile instrument, and extremely comfortable to play.
When compared to electric basses (Fender P or J), the fretted Omni cannot match their punch despite having two different types of pickups for variety and the frets for clarity. Nonetheless, if I dial it more to the magnetic pickups, play closer to the bridge and dial up the treble, it has plenty of definition to lock in with a drummer. Incidentally, I play through a decade old Ampeg BA110. This amp works great for arco (small combo amps are better for that, in my opinion), but admittedly I heard it fragging a bit at a gig last week. I may end up with a more powerful small combo amp to keep up with the Omni on “electric bass” settings where I’m pushing it harder. Also, I may try using a pick for increased definition.
As for the upright perspective, the AUB purist might scoff at a short scale upright with – heaven forbid – frets, but after reading about fretted viola de gamba instruments from centuries ago, I let the last of my prejudices fall away. The neck radius seems aggressive at first but after less than a hour of playing seems perfectly designed.
The arco settings provide a sound that is deep, rich, and well defined throughout the range, and to me that was the real test of this instrument.
The Omni still requires refined left hand techinique, such as playing on the fret instead of slightly behind it for greatest accuracy when playing arco. I use it on the stand, and I have found that achieving a vibrato without rocking the whole thing is difficult. So I continue to work on my playing style to remedy this. Also, I have no interest in trying the strap/boomerang system, though some players seem to take to it pretty easily.
I gave up acoustic upright due to a left hand injury that kept getting aggravated, but the Omni’s neck size, and less demanding ergonomics allow me to continue in the upright “world” without a problem. With the high C, I can get pretty decent cello-range notes, though placement of the bow is crucial to avoid squeaky overtones that override the actual note. I continue to work on this as well.
I use a 1/2 size fiberglass/horsehair bass bow (not literally half size, just somewhat smaller), and Kolstein rosin. As much as I’ve read about how important the bow is (and they can get really expensive), I decided to deal with what I could afford ($100). It’s kind of that “if Edgar Meyer was handed the Omni and a cheap fiberglass bow, you can bet with his technique he would make it all work.” I’m no Edgar, but feel that an investment like the Omni requires me to develop as a player and adjust to what small quirks/limitations my equipment may have.
The instructions on how to use the Omni’s controls are very helpful as a starting point (more magnetic for electric bass sound; bridge for upright/arco). Still, on songs that require me to go from bass/cello parts to electric bass, I have to quickly reach down and spin the knobs into the best settings (which I have learned) so that there isn’t a large volume drop. Comments on this by other players are found throughout this thread, and it is one thing that is a little challenging until you know where you have to adjust. I will continue to experiment on the settings as I do more gigs with this considering I may be going through a different amp at some point.
My Omni has the original NS string set of low E to high C. As of yet I don’t have an interest in trying other string brands since I feel that with an instrument of this caliber, I would rather work to improve my arco technique and adjusting the variety of pickup settings to improve the sound first.
Finally, it is indeed a serious purchase. I did a lot of research (even asking the seller if there was a return policy) before pulling the trigger. However, even with high expectations for both the electric and the upright sounds, I decided mine was a keeper within an afternoon of playing it.
I hope this adds somewhat to all the great posts that have appeared in this thread for the past few years.
-McT
Here is a video of me playing (or at least trying to play) the fretted omni bass arco style. Please keep in mind that I have no prior upright bass experience - be gentle 
eyvindwa,
Ha! During my research prior to buying the Omni, your excellent video was one of the deciding factors.
Though you may have had no prior upright experience, you obviously adapted quickly to arco, and I'm certain you have made even greater strides since that has been posted.
It looks as if you are using a full size bass bow, and I cannot tell if it's German or French, even tho your playing style is German.
I was so eager to get a 1/2 size bow, I went with a French style, but play German with it. Strange, I know.
If you are using a full size bow in this video, do you still use that or have you tried others?
Also, it would be great if you could share any other random thoughts after having had the Omni for over 2 years, such as string choices, battery life, amplification, musical situations you are in.
We can go to email if you want, btw.
Best regards.
-McT
[email protected]
Ha! During my research prior to buying the Omni, your excellent video was one of the deciding factors.
Though you may have had no prior upright experience, you obviously adapted quickly to arco, and I'm certain you have made even greater strides since that has been posted.
It looks as if you are using a full size bass bow, and I cannot tell if it's German or French, even tho your playing style is German.
I was so eager to get a 1/2 size bow, I went with a French style, but play German with it. Strange, I know.
If you are using a full size bow in this video, do you still use that or have you tried others?
Also, it would be great if you could share any other random thoughts after having had the Omni for over 2 years, such as string choices, battery life, amplification, musical situations you are in.
We can go to email if you want, btw.
Best regards.
-McT
[email protected]
Thanks for the kind words, McT! I also read about the fretted viola de gamba instruments before I took the plunge, haha!
I did have some arco lessons with a teacher when I first got this bass, and that was very helpful.
I started out with a standard size French style bass bow, but I have been having some problems with tendinitis, and I found out that the German style fit me better and caused much less pain. It is a full size German bow, yes, this one to be exact: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1410-BRAZILWOOD_DOUBLE_BASS_BOW.html (This is the bow in the video, and the bow I still use. I have not tried any other bows, but remain curious.) I have been using Pop's rosin, but now I am trying out Kolstein, and I'm liking it so far.
I have not tried any other strings than the NS Omni bass strings. It appears that it would be difficult to get "real" double bass strings to fit the bass. Ordinary flatwound bass guitar strings are supposed to fit, but I have not tried.
Battery life appears to be great (but remember to unplug the bass after playing!).
Amplification is obviously vital. Like you, I have found that my combo amp actually sounds the best. I have an Ampeg BA-115, but unfortunately, it is not loud enough for the band I'm currently in, so I mainly use my Orange TB 500 and Hartke 4x10 when I'm playing outside the house (more on that below).
Furthermore, I have found that in order to get a pleasing sound, it helps a lot to use some reverb or delay effects. I have been using either the EBS DynaVerb or the Malekko Ekko 616, not sure which I like the most.
Like you and others point out, switching from pizz to arco style is a bit challenging, with regards to turning the knobs quickly enough. I see that the recently released NXT variant of the instrument features a switch instead of blend controls, and I honestly believe that that is a better way to approach the problem. I have been wondering if I should try to get a luthier to modify my bass, but I'm not sure if that is a simple mod or not...
My main band at the moment is a technical/progressive metal band with original compositions (link in signature), so I suppose my situation is somewhat different from what most others are applying the omni bass to. Originally, I bought the bass just because I have always found arco bass and cello to be very beautiful, and after lusting over youtube videos of double bassists and cellists, while realizing that as a dad with two small kids learning an entirely different instrument it currently out of my league, I discovered the fretted omni bass and was hooked!
I used it ONLY at home for a long time, and then I introduced it (her!) to the other guys in my band. They were, needless to say, very skeptical at first, but I convinced them to try it out on a song or two.
Last Saturday I played it in front of an audience for the first time. It was an indoor festival gig, and there were somewhere around 500 people in the audience when we went on stage. I was very nervous, both with regards to my playing, to how the bass would sound over the PA and through amps that the venue supplied, and not least to how the audience would react to this instrument (the metal crowd can be quite conservative sometimes
). However, the reception was good, and I got many compliments on its sound, so now I have officially lost my virginity with this bass, and I look forward to bringing her out in front of an audience again!
I would love to continue this discussion and sharing of experience with people in this thread.
I did have some arco lessons with a teacher when I first got this bass, and that was very helpful.
I started out with a standard size French style bass bow, but I have been having some problems with tendinitis, and I found out that the German style fit me better and caused much less pain. It is a full size German bow, yes, this one to be exact: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1410-BRAZILWOOD_DOUBLE_BASS_BOW.html (This is the bow in the video, and the bow I still use. I have not tried any other bows, but remain curious.) I have been using Pop's rosin, but now I am trying out Kolstein, and I'm liking it so far.
I have not tried any other strings than the NS Omni bass strings. It appears that it would be difficult to get "real" double bass strings to fit the bass. Ordinary flatwound bass guitar strings are supposed to fit, but I have not tried.
Battery life appears to be great (but remember to unplug the bass after playing!).
Amplification is obviously vital. Like you, I have found that my combo amp actually sounds the best. I have an Ampeg BA-115, but unfortunately, it is not loud enough for the band I'm currently in, so I mainly use my Orange TB 500 and Hartke 4x10 when I'm playing outside the house (more on that below).
Furthermore, I have found that in order to get a pleasing sound, it helps a lot to use some reverb or delay effects. I have been using either the EBS DynaVerb or the Malekko Ekko 616, not sure which I like the most.
Like you and others point out, switching from pizz to arco style is a bit challenging, with regards to turning the knobs quickly enough. I see that the recently released NXT variant of the instrument features a switch instead of blend controls, and I honestly believe that that is a better way to approach the problem. I have been wondering if I should try to get a luthier to modify my bass, but I'm not sure if that is a simple mod or not...
My main band at the moment is a technical/progressive metal band with original compositions (link in signature), so I suppose my situation is somewhat different from what most others are applying the omni bass to. Originally, I bought the bass just because I have always found arco bass and cello to be very beautiful, and after lusting over youtube videos of double bassists and cellists, while realizing that as a dad with two small kids learning an entirely different instrument it currently out of my league, I discovered the fretted omni bass and was hooked!
I used it ONLY at home for a long time, and then I introduced it (her!) to the other guys in my band. They were, needless to say, very skeptical at first, but I convinced them to try it out on a song or two.
Last Saturday I played it in front of an audience for the first time. It was an indoor festival gig, and there were somewhere around 500 people in the audience when we went on stage. I was very nervous, both with regards to my playing, to how the bass would sound over the PA and through amps that the venue supplied, and not least to how the audience would react to this instrument (the metal crowd can be quite conservative sometimes
). However, the reception was good, and I got many compliments on its sound, so now I have officially lost my virginity with this bass, and I look forward to bringing her out in front of an audience again!I would love to continue this discussion and sharing of experience with people in this thread.
Hey guys, great stuff. Please keep the information on the thread rather moving to emails.
I own a fretless OmniBass 5 which I got used here form the classified last summer. It's the older version (BassCello) with the 2.5" fingerboard radius running all over the neck, up to the nut. This makes fingering a bit hard at the low positions.
The bass sound great through an EA Micro300 + Bergantino AE112, better than with my Markbass CMD112p.
I'm not an upright bass player so I use it mainly when I need to get close to that sound. It always sounds great, very playable and easy to get around with. I used to own a Big Kydd 4 a few years back. Nice instrument but didn't sound as good to my ears.
The reason I got attracted to the Omnibass was the beautiful fretless/EUB sound the NS instrument produce. The idea of a fretted EUB is very strange to me, I must admit...
I own a fretless OmniBass 5 which I got used here form the classified last summer. It's the older version (BassCello) with the 2.5" fingerboard radius running all over the neck, up to the nut. This makes fingering a bit hard at the low positions.
The bass sound great through an EA Micro300 + Bergantino AE112, better than with my Markbass CMD112p.
I'm not an upright bass player so I use it mainly when I need to get close to that sound. It always sounds great, very playable and easy to get around with. I used to own a Big Kydd 4 a few years back. Nice instrument but didn't sound as good to my ears.
The reason I got attracted to the Omnibass was the beautiful fretless/EUB sound the NS instrument produce. The idea of a fretted EUB is very strange to me, I must admit...
TimothyGroovy
Commercial User
- Aug 3, 2000
- 2,376
- 2,108
- Disclosures
- Owner: Uni•Sound Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars, Olinto Bass, LaBella Strings
Link Removed
Got this last week, totally happy with it! played it though Aguilar and TC bass rig, both sounded great to me!
Got this last week, totally happy with it! played it though Aguilar and TC bass rig, both sounded great to me!
TimothyGroovy
Commercial User
- Aug 3, 2000
- 2,376
- 2,108
- Disclosures
- Owner: Uni•Sound Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars, Olinto Bass, LaBella Strings
I tried a TI set, just because I had the original D string broken. Didn't like it at all. The instrument felt stiff ant the sound wasn't as open. The original NS strings are the best for the instrument, IMHO. I would try them on my fretless if they weren't THAT expensive.
BTW, did you get that tripod with the bass? Mine is different.
BTW, did you get that tripod with the bass? Mine is different.
I am also VERY interested in the intonation issue. I am having a hard time seeing how a straight bridge can do the intonation thing. Can someone who has one chime in?
After about a year of working with my Omni 5 fretted, and getting confident enough to play arco at the 20th fret (and beyond), I confess I am not finding an intonation problem.
[I haven't ventured too much further down the two-octave + neck, but I figure once I'm down there I may as well be playing violin.]
When I'm playing the high G on the 5th C string, it is dead on.
The interesting thing about having the frets is that I had to overcome the thought that placing my "fretting fingers" anywhere behind the fret would provide a consistent, true note. While this works on bass guitar, and of course guitar, on the Omni that is just not the case.
Every effort has to be made to play ON the fret for the truest note when playing arco, which reveals poor intonation far quicker than pizz, of course. Granted, being just behind the fret is very good, and acceptable. But I have found that over the entire range of the instrument, I have had to go back to the "viola de gamba" technique of "on the fret." It remains a bit of a challenge because it runs counter to the "behind the fret" standard technique of fretted electric bass.
Having said that, if I were to determine that the intonation had slipped, I might try to adjust the bridge, but then again, having played acoustic upright, I would probably experiment as to where I should fret in the upper register to compensate, and just vibrato to "get it there." You can flatten a note by being further back from the fret, as well.
As for the straightness of the NS bridge, I just think of a standard 3/4 upright, and the fact that the bridges on those are straight also.
When I received my Omni, I checked the intonation with harmonics, and felt was good to go right out of the box. The original strings are still on, and I haven't adjusted the bridge at all.
Any the adjustments I've been making involve finding the best arco setting, the best arco/pizz blend, and the best pizz setting with the little Ampeg I use. And of course, adjusting my playing technique.
I hope this helps!
McT
[I haven't ventured too much further down the two-octave + neck, but I figure once I'm down there I may as well be playing violin.]
When I'm playing the high G on the 5th C string, it is dead on.
The interesting thing about having the frets is that I had to overcome the thought that placing my "fretting fingers" anywhere behind the fret would provide a consistent, true note. While this works on bass guitar, and of course guitar, on the Omni that is just not the case.
Every effort has to be made to play ON the fret for the truest note when playing arco, which reveals poor intonation far quicker than pizz, of course. Granted, being just behind the fret is very good, and acceptable. But I have found that over the entire range of the instrument, I have had to go back to the "viola de gamba" technique of "on the fret." It remains a bit of a challenge because it runs counter to the "behind the fret" standard technique of fretted electric bass.
Having said that, if I were to determine that the intonation had slipped, I might try to adjust the bridge, but then again, having played acoustic upright, I would probably experiment as to where I should fret in the upper register to compensate, and just vibrato to "get it there." You can flatten a note by being further back from the fret, as well.
As for the straightness of the NS bridge, I just think of a standard 3/4 upright, and the fact that the bridges on those are straight also.
When I received my Omni, I checked the intonation with harmonics, and felt was good to go right out of the box. The original strings are still on, and I haven't adjusted the bridge at all.
Any the adjustments I've been making involve finding the best arco setting, the best arco/pizz blend, and the best pizz setting with the little Ampeg I use. And of course, adjusting my playing technique.
I hope this helps!
McT
I bought a used 5 string Omni a month ago and got to put it to the test this past week. I got it so that I could continue to practice when I travel by air without lugging my bass. I have an Eminence too, but even that's kind of inconvenient for short trips, plus checking a bag.
With the Omni, I was lucky not to have to check it, but on the first flight, the bass wouldn't fit in the overhead. I was flying business class so the attendant let me put it behind the last row of business class seats, just before the economy seats.
On the return flight I was flying economy but the plane was much larger and it fit fine in the overhead. Room to spare.
I bought the end-pin stand from Golihur and Mark was kind enough to sell me one of his headphone amplifiers. I practiced quite a bit - a few hours a day when I wasn't on the run and it worked out very well. At first I tried to use the headphone amp, but I found that I could hear the instrument well enough in the quiet hotel room unamplified. The sound was far from gorgeous, but functional. Arco was better than pizz, but both worked. I have Band in a Box on my laptop and was even able to play against it unamplified.
I had some slight adjustment getting used to the shorter scale, but it was pretty minor. My primary instrument is a 3/4 URB. The bigger issue was the 5th string. Every time I looked at the fingerboard, that extra string would throw me.
I think the Omni bows easier than my URB because I have Obligatos on it.
Over all, I'm very happy with the quality and functionality of the Omni. The soft case is nicely constructed too, and the whole thing: Omni, end-pin, music stand, bow and bow case, patch-cords, is light enough to carry through the long slog at the airports. One minor gripe - the bow pocket is too small to fit a bow case. That was short-sighted of NS because no one with a good bow will be putting it into a soft-shell case unprotected.
With the Omni, I was lucky not to have to check it, but on the first flight, the bass wouldn't fit in the overhead. I was flying business class so the attendant let me put it behind the last row of business class seats, just before the economy seats.
On the return flight I was flying economy but the plane was much larger and it fit fine in the overhead. Room to spare.
I bought the end-pin stand from Golihur and Mark was kind enough to sell me one of his headphone amplifiers. I practiced quite a bit - a few hours a day when I wasn't on the run and it worked out very well. At first I tried to use the headphone amp, but I found that I could hear the instrument well enough in the quiet hotel room unamplified. The sound was far from gorgeous, but functional. Arco was better than pizz, but both worked. I have Band in a Box on my laptop and was even able to play against it unamplified.
I had some slight adjustment getting used to the shorter scale, but it was pretty minor. My primary instrument is a 3/4 URB. The bigger issue was the 5th string. Every time I looked at the fingerboard, that extra string would throw me.
I think the Omni bows easier than my URB because I have Obligatos on it.
Over all, I'm very happy with the quality and functionality of the Omni. The soft case is nicely constructed too, and the whole thing: Omni, end-pin, music stand, bow and bow case, patch-cords, is light enough to carry through the long slog at the airports. One minor gripe - the bow pocket is too small to fit a bow case. That was short-sighted of NS because no one with a good bow will be putting it into a soft-shell case unprotected.
