Nut slot depth check using the "click" method Question ??

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I've done it several times (cutting a new nut/slots) but it's been sooo... long ago, my memory isn't serving me.

You want that so very small gap between the top of the first fret and the bottom of the string when you fret above it.

I just can't remember if you fret the 2nd or 3rd fret to do the "tap and click" test.
>>>>>>>>>("You know What I'm Talkin' About")
>>>>>> >>> View attachment 3875134

Anyone?

Thanks

.22 at the first fret. .32 at the nut. String should rest on the guage.

 

[Killing Floor]

I know a guy. I take it to the guy. The guy does a pretty good job. Better than I would do.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

That idea of @BruceJohnson using a ruler is brilliant, gotta try that.

 

[707GK]

I was taught by a luthier to fret the 3rd fret and measure the distance between the string and the 1st fret in order to judge the nut slot.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I've seen both methods, fret at third and measure at first, or just measure at first. The difference is probably microscopic. What are the Pros /Cons?

 

[Cutter8]

I don't remember who taught me this, or if it is the "correct" method, but here's a quick way to check if nut slot depth is right:

Assuming your relief is set properly and saddles adjusted for relatively low action, when you fret at the 3rd fret, the distance between the top of the 1st fret and the string should be the same as the distance between the top of the 4th fret and the string.

 

[buttersss]

I use a feeler gauge 0,50 mm that's about .020 inch between open string and first fret. The G string can usually be set a little bit lower (0,45 mm).
It's always a good idea to start a little higher like 0.022 inch and see how that works out...
But always do a set up in this order
1. neck relief
2 action at the bridge
3 action at the first fret
4 intonation

 

[707GK]

I've seen both methods, fret at third and measure at first, or just measure at first. The difference is probably microscopic. What are the Pros /Cons?

I think fretting the 3rd fret allows you to tap the string at the first fret and do a quick and dirty measurement without tools, so to speak.

No gap means the nut slot is too low, too much gap means it's not cut low enough. You can measure to get more precise, but it's not completely necessary.

I'm sure both methods yield similar results and it's just a matter of preference. The quick and dirty has worked for me!

 

[dregsfan]

I use a feeler gauge 0,50 mm that's about .020 inch between open string and first fret. The G string can usually be set a little bit lower (0,45 mm).
It's always a good idea to start a little higher like 0.022 inch and see how that works out...
But always do a set up in this order
1. neck relief
2 action at the bridge
3 action at the first fret
4 intonation

Thanks for that.

 

[Turnaround]

Seems I am answering this question a lot lately.

Conventional wisdom says that the distance from the top of the first fret to the bottom of the string should be about .020". Most of the luthiers I know recommend this. I do not.

If I fret my Number One at the second fret and measure the gap at the 3rd fret, I find the gap to be very close to .010". Same if I fret at the first fret and measure at the second. In other words the gap I need at the next fret from where I am fretting is .010", at least in this area of the neck. So that tells me I need a clearance of .010" at the first fret when "fretting" in the zero fret position a.k.a. the nut. If .010" is enough clearance over the second fret, it's enough over the first, and that will occur when the nut is set to provide .010" of clearance there. It may be advisable to add a couple of thousandths of an inch to account for wear over time, but anything beyond that serves no purpose.

So you can use the tap test by depressing the string between the 2nd and third frets so that it it touching the second fret. If there is a gap between the first fret and the string you will hear it by very lightly tapping the string directly above the first fret and listening for a "click". No click indicates that the string is too far from the fret or it's already resting on it. In either case the nut slot is not right. If you do get a tiny click, then it's in the ballpark. That may be good enough, depending on how fussy you are.

 

[dregsfan]

So that tells me I need a clearance of .010" at the first fret when "fretting" in the zero fret position a.k.a. the nut.

It sounds right/makes sense. But I would think your open strings might "rattle/buzz" with such a low cut slot. No?
Does that ever not work for some heavy hitting (right hand), aggressive players?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Turnaround]

It sounds right/makes sense. But I would think your open strings might "rattle/buzz" with such a low cut slot. No?
Does that ever not work for some heavy hitting (right hand), aggressive players?

Thanks for the reply.

It only rattles as much as it does when fretting at the first and plucking aggressively. In other words it is consistent, open and fret to fret. If your bass is set up to not rattle when fretting at the first, and you use the method I outlined for determining what the gap should be at the first fret it will all be consistent. Fret the first fret, measure the gap at the second, add two thousandths to account for wear and use the result as the gap from first fret to string. Just be super careful when filing the nut slots - you've only got 2 thou of leeway before it's too low. If that kind of tolerance scares you, then add a bit extra - you've actually got a fair bit of room between my setup "ideal" and that of "conventional wisdom".

 

[dregsfan]

Thank You Richard.

 

[rudy4444]

There's no reason to make the strings any higher at the nut than what they would be if the frets were extended and a zero fret used. In practice it's easy to set the height just slightly higher than the hypothetical ideal, as that will allow for a slight amount of settling in of the string in the nut slot. Here's how to do it:

 

[dwizum]

I use the same method as @Turnaround and I do find that it generally sets my slots deeper than most others would do (i.e. strings closer to the fretboard). But I don't get buzz (at least, no more or less buzz than at other positions) and I like the consistency in feel. One of my least favorite things is playing a bass with a nut that's too high.

This approach makes logical sense, to me at least. If you're fretting at the first fret and the string is X height over the second fret, then fretting at the zero fret (i.e. an open string) should result in the string being X height over the first fret. The thing that matters is the height over a given fret when you're fretting the next fret out, if that makes sense.

All in all though, there are clearly a bunch of ways to do this and the important thing is finding a method that you can do reliably to get a result you're happy with.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I'll speak up and say that, like Richard, I cut my nut slots to be 0.010" higher than the frets. That's the number that's worked best for me, in making the applied pressure at the 1st fret about equal to the applied pressure of the other frets nearby.

Same with zero frets, 0.010".

 

[buttersss]

Seems I am answering this question a lot lately.

Conventional wisdom says that the distance from the top of the first fret to the bottom of the string should be about .020". Most of the luthiers I know recommend this. I do not.

If I fret my Number One at the second fret and measure the gap at the 3rd fret, I find the gap to be very close to .010". Same if I fret at the first fret and measure at the second. In other words the gap I need at the next fret from where I am fretting is .010", at least in this area of the neck. So that tells me I need a clearance of .010" at the first fret when "fretting" in the zero fret position a.k.a. the nut. If .010" is enough clearance over the second fret, it's enough over the first, and that will occur when the nut is set to provide .010" of clearance there. It may be advisable to add a couple of thousandths of an inch to account for wear over time, but anything beyond that serves no purpose.

So you can use the tap test by depressing the string between the 2nd and third frets so that it it touching the second fret. If there is a gap between the first fret and the string you will hear it by very lightly tapping the string directly above the first fret and listening for a "click". No click indicates that the string is too far from the fret or it's already resting on it. In either case the nut slot is not right. If you do get a tiny click, then it's in the ballpark. That may be good enough, depending on how fussy you are.

0.010" at the first fret. I've never tried that. You got a point there if you consider overall consistency. I'm gonna give that a try. Never to old the learn a new trick ;-)

 

[Turnaround]

0.010" at the first fret. I've never tried that. You got a point there if you consider overall consistency. I'm gonna give that a try. Never to old the learn a new trick ;-)

Don't use .010" at the first fret. Use the amount that is the clearance over the second fret when fretting the first. It may be different depending on your setup.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I should clarify that when I say I prefer nut slots 0.010" above the frets, that's the actual measurement above the plane of the tops of the frets. If you lay a ruler across the tops of the frets, I like the bottoms of the nut slots to be 0.010" above that line. History has shown me that number is about right for basses I've set up and played. And that number seems to work regardless of scale length, string gauge, action height, etc.

Now, it's gotten confusing on this thread because you guys are talking different methods of measuring this. For example, if you set a short ruler up on edge, resting in the nut slot and on the 2nd fret, then you'd want to see a 0.005" gap between the ruler and the 1st fret, to have the 0.010" slot height.

Likewise, if you have the string on there, and press it down between the 2nd and 3rd frets, you want to see a 0.005" gap between the underside of the string and the top of the 1st fret.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I'll speak up and say that, like Richard, I cut my nut slots to be 0.010" higher than the frets. That's the number that's worked best for me, in making the applied pressure at the 1st fret about equal to the applied pressure of the other frets nearby.

Same with zero frets, 0.010".

That's the same figure I got from Michael Tobias years ago. The question had something to do with an MTD import (MIK) sporting a zero fret and Buzz Feiten system.

Riis