- Dec 13, 1999
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- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
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Double Bass NYC BASS WORKSHOP
- Thread starter Ed Fuqua
- Start date
I can see the jpeg alright for some reason.
It would be great if Joe was filming or recording these workshops, I have be following them on his website every now and then. I would definitely be interested if they were available in the format of Mike's master classes etc.
And Neal Miner kills!
It would be great if Joe was filming or recording these workshops, I have be following them on his website every now and then. I would definitely be interested if they were available in the format of Mike's master classes etc.
And Neal Miner kills!
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Thanks for rubbing it in, funny man.
I can't believe that this workshop wouldn't be fully attended by lots of NY area bassists. Or am I missing something here ?
Sure would be nice if it was taped like a previous poster mentioned.
I can't believe that this workshop wouldn't be fully attended by lots of NY area bassists. Or am I missing something here ?
Sure would be nice if it was taped like a previous poster mentioned.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Joe's previous workshops have been standing room only, I have no reason to doubt this one will be any different. If you want to twist the knife a little more, you should check out the thread on Alex Cuadrado's CD recording session and the Nilson Matta vid I posted to. Or just search youtube for Peter Washington, Scott Colley, Jon Webber, Boris Koslov, John Hebert, Dan Loomis, Nathan Peck, Matt Clohesy, Chris Lightcap, etc etc etc. It may be rubbing it in to you, but it's what I gotta put up with everyday. 
I know there's been a few issues with photos and audio taping with a couple of the presenters (they have existing recording contracts etc) plus then somebody has to worry about licensing for public performance, so maybe it'll happen in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus Joe's kind of a luddite, his website was put together by a former student; he doesn't even have all the workshop flyers posted there...
I know there's been a few issues with photos and audio taping with a couple of the presenters (they have existing recording contracts etc) plus then somebody has to worry about licensing for public performance, so maybe it'll happen in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus Joe's kind of a luddite, his website was put together by a former student; he doesn't even have all the workshop flyers posted there...
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Well, like I said, I'd never heard Lou play before and he was up first. Let's see, I remember OUR LOVE IS HERE TO STAY, a blues (that hinted at OP's SWINGING TILL THE GIRLS COME HOME) EVERYTHING HAPPENED TO ME and something else that escapes me right now. Sean played an original called THE MONEY CHANGERS, a ballad medley of an original (GRAHAM EUEN?) and CHELSEA BRIDGE (arco for the melody on both) a blues and a solo piece called ISMIR. And Neal played I REMEMBER YOU, an original blues called BLUES FOR OKURA, SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES and now the last tune escapes me.
It was interesting to hear how none of these guys has a real "bassistic" approach, pretty much ANY of them, the solo line could have been a tenor or trumpet or guitar etc. Solid, solid walking lines but immediately responsive to any voicings or new directions Mike Kanan (the pianist/accompanist for the workshop) would suggest. But given this "similarity" in concept (if you will) these guys all sound so different. Lou has a lot a chromaticism in his playing, Sean has probably the most "modern" approach, Neal is one of my favorite players and wonderfully melodic. Well ALL these guys are wonderfully melodic.
During the Q & A we found out that all 3 guys play piano (Lou also plays guitar), but they all approach first learning a tune by learning and internalizing the melody - get a range of sources (books, recordings etc.) to get the original composer's approach (including the harmony) and THEN start seeing if you're hearing a different approach, different harmony. All three of these folks were part of the program (Lou earlier but Sean and Neal at the same time) at Manhattan School of Music; Lou studied with David Walter and Neal and Sean with Orin O'Brien. Neal had been studying privately with legit teachers since he was a teenager. Lou stopped at Manhattan after a year (he went out on tour) but was studying with Lennie Tristano after that. Everyone still practices arco, but Sean is the only one that is actively pursuing the arco voice. Neal particularly said that the great thing about learning a legit approach is building a solid left hand. When asked what was it about bass that they each loved, the sound was the answer. Sean said he couldn't be specific, he loved the sound of so many instruments, but that he "knew" that bass was "his instrument".
Then they played (all together, trading the melody and soloing in 8 bar sections) THESE FOOLISH THINGS accompanied by Mike and then BLUE MONK without accompaniment.
Any specific questions to jog my poor memory? Maybe Fred will chime in as well.
It was interesting to hear how none of these guys has a real "bassistic" approach, pretty much ANY of them, the solo line could have been a tenor or trumpet or guitar etc. Solid, solid walking lines but immediately responsive to any voicings or new directions Mike Kanan (the pianist/accompanist for the workshop) would suggest. But given this "similarity" in concept (if you will) these guys all sound so different. Lou has a lot a chromaticism in his playing, Sean has probably the most "modern" approach, Neal is one of my favorite players and wonderfully melodic. Well ALL these guys are wonderfully melodic.
During the Q & A we found out that all 3 guys play piano (Lou also plays guitar), but they all approach first learning a tune by learning and internalizing the melody - get a range of sources (books, recordings etc.) to get the original composer's approach (including the harmony) and THEN start seeing if you're hearing a different approach, different harmony. All three of these folks were part of the program (Lou earlier but Sean and Neal at the same time) at Manhattan School of Music; Lou studied with David Walter and Neal and Sean with Orin O'Brien. Neal had been studying privately with legit teachers since he was a teenager. Lou stopped at Manhattan after a year (he went out on tour) but was studying with Lennie Tristano after that. Everyone still practices arco, but Sean is the only one that is actively pursuing the arco voice. Neal particularly said that the great thing about learning a legit approach is building a solid left hand. When asked what was it about bass that they each loved, the sound was the answer. Sean said he couldn't be specific, he loved the sound of so many instruments, but that he "knew" that bass was "his instrument".
Then they played (all together, trading the melody and soloing in 8 bar sections) THESE FOOLISH THINGS accompanied by Mike and then BLUE MONK without accompaniment.
Any specific questions to jog my poor memory? Maybe Fred will chime in as well.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
The fog cleared for a minnit, the missing tunes are:
Lou - ALONE TOGETHER
Sean - ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE
Neal - INDIAN SUMMER
The bassists played the melodies for each tune, I didn't know if I needed to say that?
Anyway, hopefully Fred Pratt will chime in and I"m going to sound Mike Kanan about contributing his perspective about what it was like accompanying and being accompanied by these guys...
Lou - ALONE TOGETHER
Sean - ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE
Neal - INDIAN SUMMER
The bassists played the melodies for each tune, I didn't know if I needed to say that?
Anyway, hopefully Fred Pratt will chime in and I"m going to sound Mike Kanan about contributing his perspective about what it was like accompanying and being accompanied by these guys...
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Couple more things - someone asked about when you're in a situation where someone in the group is either rushing or dragging and, as an adjunct, how had each bassist developed their timefeel. As to the latter, all musicians had worked a lot with a metronome but felt that the confidence to trust your own time came from experience and listening - to other players whether on recordings or in performance- and "hearing" the time in much the same way one "hears" harmony or melody. Lou (who has been playing the longest) said that he had gotten to a point that he had to "stop listening" to a player who was not responsive to his conception of where the time was; Neal said that he tries "to play as simply as possible so that things can settle down" and the other musicians can "hear where I am putting the time". Sean likened the experience to walking down the street and either being pushed ahead or being grabbed and pulled back. He said that this visceral experience should make any musician sensitive to their aural surroundings "look around to see what's going on", to try to figure out why there was a disparity in the feel. When the person who asked the question followed up with "what do you do if the person you're playing with just isn't sensitive?" Sean was pretty funny. He said "That's when you ask for a raise..."
There's not a whole lot I can add to what Ed has said. I had been eagerly anticipating the workshop since I heard about it and I wasn't the least bit disappointed. I'm a big fan of Neal's, I also dig Sean's sound, and it was great to hear Lou for the first time.
Mike Kanan commented during the Q&A about how the time feel of each bassist was really different. I was thinking about how, while Neal and Mike are the ones who play together all the time, each musician could step up with his different approach and, listening to each other and feeling the time, the musicians could play together in such a compelling way.
A highlight for me was the last number, Blue Monk, when just the three basses played together. They played the head, of course, with Lou walking and Sean and Neal playing the melodic line. Then they traded choruses, I think, then eights, then fours, and by the end it was amazing. I don't know if it was twos or ones or what, but one guy would start a phrase and another guy would finish it. They were all listening to each other and feeling it. And the time was so fat you could drive a truck through it.
Another highlight for me was just hearing Neal play again. Melodies like Smoke Gets in Your Eyes and These Foolish Things seem like they were written for him --his sound is so rich and his notes so clear. He makes what he does seem obvious and sound easy, but of course we know that it is not.
Mike Kanan commented during the Q&A about how the time feel of each bassist was really different. I was thinking about how, while Neal and Mike are the ones who play together all the time, each musician could step up with his different approach and, listening to each other and feeling the time, the musicians could play together in such a compelling way.
A highlight for me was the last number, Blue Monk, when just the three basses played together. They played the head, of course, with Lou walking and Sean and Neal playing the melodic line. Then they traded choruses, I think, then eights, then fours, and by the end it was amazing. I don't know if it was twos or ones or what, but one guy would start a phrase and another guy would finish it. They were all listening to each other and feeling it. And the time was so fat you could drive a truck through it.
Another highlight for me was just hearing Neal play again. Melodies like Smoke Gets in Your Eyes and These Foolish Things seem like they were written for him --his sound is so rich and his notes so clear. He makes what he does seem obvious and sound easy, but of course we know that it is not.
That sounds like it was pretty infomative workshop, wish I could have heard those guys talk and play. I haven't heard of Lou before I think I will have to go and find some recordings now.
Did they talk at all about developing a jazz concept, i.e. transcribing and lifting ideas to use or ear training etc? When I listen to Neal I defintely hear what you describe as an "un bassistic" approach, just great melody in his solos and his walking.
Thank you both for going to the effort of typing that out. It's an inspiring read for sure.
Did they talk at all about developing a jazz concept, i.e. transcribing and lifting ideas to use or ear training etc? When I listen to Neal I defintely hear what you describe as an "un bassistic" approach, just great melody in his solos and his walking.
Thank you both for going to the effort of typing that out. It's an inspiring read for sure.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
But also; Lou studied with Lennie Tristano, so he went through all of the exercises, ear training, transcription etc. that was Lennie's program. There's an interview with Neal here on talkbass (in the READING ROOM section) where he talks about what he did coming up.
What did they have to say, in terms of set-up, choices of strings and amped or not kinda stuff, if anything?
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Actually, nothing. The only cat that showed up with an amp was Lou, but he didn't use it. Just cause i know Neal a little bit, he is all about the NoAmp. The three of them did have a discussion about travel basses; Neal played a bunch because he's been getting hit with a lot of oversize, overweight charges on tour with Jane Monheit (she picks'em up, bless her) and he couldn't find anything that he liked. He plays acoustic or mic only generally. So he is getting one of the new lightweight "space shuttle" cases from Gage, only weighs 31 lbs empty.
No talk of strings at all. When responding to a question from a piano player about whether bassists needed to be "big," Lou responded, No, but it would help to be "stronger." He appeared to be playing Spiro Weichs. He had the busiest style of the the three, but not in a bad way --very musical. Sean appeared to be playing Mittels, and Neal a combination of Mittel E and A, Golden Spiral D, and Oliv G.
