Would there be any way i could find classical guitar strings to go on a short scale bass? If not how to I get a classical guitar sound out of a bass?
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Nylon sound
- Thread starter dustin shelton
- Start date
D
As far as I know: No, not a chance.
The only bass stings I've tried that sounds even REMOTELY like classical guitar strings are the Thomastik Acoustic Bass strings. They've got silk inlays and roll under the fingers like classical guitar strings. I'm not saying they sound like classical guitar strings, they don't, but they are the closest I've tried. They do make the bass feel kinda like a bass version of a classical guitar.
They need a piezo though, they won't work with magnetic pickups. They are long scale but I've got them on a short scale acoustic bass and they work fine. A little floppy due to the low tension (which gets even lower/floppier on a short scale) but they are the only acoustic bass strings I like the sound of so I've learned to to live with it. Very warm, lovely tone. Not nearly as bright/harsh/metallic sounding as every other acoustic bass strings I've tried.
The only "nylon" bass strings I know of are nylon tapewounds and they're in a completely different category. They are just regular roundwounds (and in one case flatwounds) with a nylon wrapping on the outside. The Thomastik acoustic strings will at least be much closer to classical guitar strings than those.
I don't think it's quite what you're looking for but I don't think you will get much closer.
The only bass stings I've tried that sounds even REMOTELY like classical guitar strings are the Thomastik Acoustic Bass strings. They've got silk inlays and roll under the fingers like classical guitar strings. I'm not saying they sound like classical guitar strings, they don't, but they are the closest I've tried. They do make the bass feel kinda like a bass version of a classical guitar.
They need a piezo though, they won't work with magnetic pickups. They are long scale but I've got them on a short scale acoustic bass and they work fine. A little floppy due to the low tension (which gets even lower/floppier on a short scale) but they are the only acoustic bass strings I like the sound of so I've learned to to live with it. Very warm, lovely tone. Not nearly as bright/harsh/metallic sounding as every other acoustic bass strings I've tried.
The only "nylon" bass strings I know of are nylon tapewounds and they're in a completely different category. They are just regular roundwounds (and in one case flatwounds) with a nylon wrapping on the outside. The Thomastik acoustic strings will at least be much closer to classical guitar strings than those.
I don't think it's quite what you're looking for but I don't think you will get much closer.
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The Thomastik-Infeld Acoustic Bass (aka "Acousticores") AB344 aren't the only existing nylon-core strings out there by any means. A number of string companies make sets that are silver-plated copper roundwound, which is more common, in the realm of classical guitar wound strings, than the Acousticores' phosphor bronze.
We can identify the following categories of nyloncore bass strings:
- strings for ukulele basses (Pyramid, Kala)
- strings for guitar-scale acoustic basses (D'Addario, La Bella)
- 6-string sets to convert normal, 25.5" scale classical guitars to octave-down operation (Savarez, Magma)
- sets for classical contrabass guitar (~29.5" scale), most of which are 6-string (Hannabach, La Bella, Royal Classics, Savarez, Pyramid)
- sets for medium or long scale contrabass guitar, Portuguese Fado acoustic bass guitar or to retrofit steel-string ABGs, 6- and 4- string (Hannabach, Savarez, Dragão, Fisoma, the aforementioned T-I; the latter two also make 5-string sets).
As @Deleted member 271037 says, ALL these only work with piezo pickups (or microphones).
What I would do in the OP's shoes, assuming they have an electric (magnetic-pickup equipped) short-scale bass guitar, is buy a piezo bridge for electric bass (something like this, but shop around, and ask advice here on the forum, for your best compromise between price and quality), either a second jack and external preamp or a dual, piezo+magnetic internal preamp, and then try a set of La Bella CB40-BE, Savarez 6CB640R or Hannabach 840MT 4.75 (the latter two need to be tied into a knot at the bridge side to simulate a ball-end, and come with two extra top strings you won't need):
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If you don't like the result, you'll still have your bass, only with a new, piezo option.
If, instead, your shorty is actually an acoustic shorty, already with an undersaddle piezo pickup, just try one of those sets.
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D
Very interesting! But does it actually work? I mean, none of the string strings you mentioned are actually made for a bass. Have you actually tried this?
In addition to the need for a piezo+preamp I suspect there must be other issues that would at least require some minor modifications to the instrument?
How will this affect action? Won't many of the strings you mentioned need a considerably higher action than what we consider normal for basses to avoid buzzing? I'm assuming the bass will need a new nut for higher action (and possibly also because of the different string gauges). If it's an acoustic bass I'm guessing the saddle will also have to be replaced with a higher one? If it's an electric, won't some of these strings be damaged by the metal saddles on an electric bass?
Will a regular short scale bass guitar intonate properly with these types of strings? Higher action would require more compensation, right? Will the saddles still be within the range of a typical electric short scale? Will the bridge have to be moved (huge job!) on an acoustic bass?
Will the neck on a normal bass guitar get enough relief with these lower tension strings? I guess a dual action truss rod would solve this but I'm not sure a bass with a single action truss rod would work here.
But most importantly, will the tone be acceptable? I mean, classical guitar strings sound horrible on most steel string guitars, they simply can't drive a more heavily braced steel string guitar properly. On a electric... well, I must admit I've never actually tried classical guitar strings on an electric guitar. I know it has been done though. Can any of the strings you mentioned actually produce a good tone on a bass guitar, (solid and/or acoustic) or are we talking about spending a lot of time and money for a less than ideal result here?
I've tried several different types of piezo equipped semi-acoustic instruments with nylon strings and many of them sounded great. But they were all specifically designed for nylon strings. Nylon strings with a piezo on a solid body instrument...? I guess Parker Fly had a nylon version (but I believe it had some kind of optical pickup, please correct me if I'm wrong). I think Godin had done something like this too? But these were GUITARS, not basses. And they were specifically designed for this.
I guess it COULD work but I remain sceptical until proved otherwise. I also suspect the instrument would have to be specifically designed for nylon+piezo to get a decent tone, rather than just installing nylon strings + a piezo on a random electric (or even acoustic) bass.
I didn't check out all the strings you mentioned. I just took a quick look at the LaBellas and they actually warn specifically against using these strings on a bass guitar.
Will this actually work? Sorry for all the questions, I'm genuinely intrigued by this, I just can't see how it could possibly work? Or at least not how it could produce an acceptable tone. I would LOVE to hear more if you've actually done this! And if not... Well, you got me thinking, which is always a good thing!
Maybe it's time to build something...For what it's worth the Thomastik strings I mentioned before are actually designed for bass guitar and won't have any of the issues I've mentioned in this post. I still think these strings will as close as the OP can get, at least without spending a lot of time, money and with an uncertain result. But please convince me that I'm wrong!
I'm ALMOST tempted to buy a set of those LaBellas just to see what happens when I install them on my acoustic.Or maybe the OP should just buy one of those contrabass guitars... Actually, this seems like the most sensible choice if the OP is looking for that specific type of tone.
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You do look interested... Holy cr@p!
Let's see:
But does it actually work? I mean, none of the string strings you mentioned are actually made for a bass. Have you actually tried this?
I have the Savarez medium-scale 4-string set on an ABG.
In addition to the need for a piezo+preamp I suspect there must be other issues that would at least require some minor modifications to the instrument?
How will this affect action? Won't many of the strings you mentioned need a considerably higher action than what we consider normal for basses to avoid buzzing? I'm assuming the bass will need a new nut for higher action (and possibly also because of the different string gauges). If it's an acoustic bass I'm guessing the saddle will also have to be replaced with a higher one?
Depends on gauges. The Savarez set I use has tensions comparable to "electric" strings, but it's obviously more flexible and did need some loosening of the truss rod. Nut and bridge worked as-is.
If it's an electric, won't some of these strings be damaged by the metal saddles on an electric bass?
Unless saddles are especially rough, I don't see why. Maybe in time. Let's say I doubt one would have to replace them more often than regular steel-core roundwounds are for tone reasons.
Will a regular short scale bass guitar intonate properly with these types of strings? Higher action would require more compensation, right? Will the saddles still be within the range of a typical electric short scale? Will the bridge have to be moved (huge job!) on an acoustic bass?
Actually nylon-core strings, being more flexible, intonate flat when the bridge positioning was intended for steel-cores. However, the higher action (plus a slightly heavier fretting hand) seems to adequately compensate for it.
Will the neck on a normal bass guitar get enough relief with these lower tension strings? I guess a dual action truss rod would solve this but I'm not sure a bass with a single action truss rod would work here.
The reduced tension of nylon strings shouldn't be overstated, as I said above. It depends on the gauges. If some folks (admittedly outliers) get away with using a steel-core .085" as their low E, and their bass neck has the needed room for adjustment, so should one with a .095" to .103" nylon-core low E.
But most importantly, will the tone be acceptable? I mean, classical guitar strings sound horrible on most steel string guitars, they simply can't drive a more heavily braced steel string guitar properly. On a electric... well, I must admit I've never actually tried classical guitar strings on an electric guitar. I know it has been done though. Can any of the strings you mentioned actually produce a good tone on a bass guitar, (solid and/or acoustic) or are we talking about spending a lot of time and money for a less than ideal result here?
My Savarez sound like these Hannabachs (and I already noted the similarity in tone with Mike Inez's Unplugged tone, so nylon minds hear alike, I guess):
I've tried several different types of piezo equipped semi-acoustic instruments with nylon strings and many of them sounded great. But they were all specifically designed for nylon strings. Nylon strings with a piezo on a solid body instrument...? I guess Parker Fly had a nylon version (but I believe it had some kind of optical pickup, please correct me if I'm wrong). I think Godin had done something like this too? But these were GUITARS, not basses. And they were specifically designed for this.
They do have classical guitar or, perhaps, "crossover" neck profiles. And classical guitar bridges for ease of adaptability. They might have preamps with EQ points optimised for the strings. I wouldn't expect anything less from a 2000 buck instrument. This doesn't mean a "cheap" (electric piezo bridges not actually being that cheap) experiment can't be done and turn out satisfactory.
I guess it COULD work but I remain sceptical until proved otherwise. I also suspect the instrument would have to be specifically designed for nylon+piezo to get a decent tone, rather than just installing nylon strings + a piezo on a random electric (or even acoustic) bass.
I didn't check out all the strings you mentioned. I just took a quick look at the LaBellas and they actually warn specifically against using these strings on a bass guitar.
See my comments here.
Will this actually work? Sorry for all the questions, I'm genuinely intrigued by this, I just can't see how it could possibly work? Or at least not how it could produce an acceptable tone. I would LOVE to hear more if you've actually done this! And if not... Well, you got me thinking, which is always a good thing!
Maybe it's time to build something...For what it's worth the Thomastik strings I mentioned before are actually designed for bass guitar and won't have any of the issues I've mentioned in this post.
Why? Magic? Either all those issues (need for higher action/more neck relief/intonation room, possible fragility of the string) would be valid concerns for the Thomastiks as well (they are nylon-core strings with tension in the upper twenty pounds), or they wouldn't with the other strings I mention.
I still think these strings will as close as the OP can get, at least without spending a lot of time, money and with an uncertain result. But please convince me that I'm wrong!
I'm ALMOST tempted to buy a set of those LaBellas just to see what happens when I install them on my acoustic.The La Bella and the Savarez sets cost around 25 dollars, so I feel confident in recommending folks see for themselves. And it's just the 30" scale sets that break the piggybank: the Sav medium and long scale 4-string ones are ridiculously inexpensive at 15 and 17 bucks respectively.
Or maybe the OP should just buy one of those contrabass guitars... Actually, this seems like the most sensible choice if the OP is looking for that specific type of tone.
Eh, at least one grand is what those go for.
D
You do look interested... Holy cr@p!
Let's see:
But does it actually work? I mean, none of the string strings you mentioned are actually made for a bass. Have you actually tried this?
I have the Savarez medium-scale 4-string set on an ABG.
In addition to the need for a piezo+preamp I suspect there must be other issues that would at least require some minor modifications to the instrument?
How will this affect action? Won't many of the strings you mentioned need a considerably higher action than what we consider normal for basses to avoid buzzing? I'm assuming the bass will need a new nut for higher action (and possibly also because of the different string gauges). If it's an acoustic bass I'm guessing the saddle will also have to be replaced with a higher one?
Depends on gauges. The Savarez set I use has tensions comparable to "electric" strings, but it's obviously more flexible and did need some loosening of the truss rod. Nut and bridge worked as-is.
If it's an electric, won't some of these strings be damaged by the metal saddles on an electric bass?
Unless saddles are especially rough, I don't see why. Maybe in time. Let's say I doubt one would have to replace them more often than regular steel-core roundwounds are for tone reasons.
Will a regular short scale bass guitar intonate properly with these types of strings? Higher action would require more compensation, right? Will the saddles still be within the range of a typical electric short scale? Will the bridge have to be moved (huge job!) on an acoustic bass?
Actually nylon-core strings, being more flexible, intonate flat when the bridge positioning was intended for steel-cores. However, the higher action (plus a slightly heavier fretting hand) seems to adequately compensate for it.
Will the neck on a normal bass guitar get enough relief with these lower tension strings? I guess a dual action truss rod would solve this but I'm not sure a bass with a single action truss rod would work here.
The reduced tension of nylon strings shouldn't be overstated, as I said above. It depends on the gauges. If some folks (admittedly outliers) get away with using a steel-core .085" as their low E, and their bass neck has the needed room for adjustment, so should one with a .095" to .103" nylon-core low E.
But most importantly, will the tone be acceptable? I mean, classical guitar strings sound horrible on most steel string guitars, they simply can't drive a more heavily braced steel string guitar properly. On a electric... well, I must admit I've never actually tried classical guitar strings on an electric guitar. I know it has been done though. Can any of the strings you mentioned actually produce a good tone on a bass guitar, (solid and/or acoustic) or are we talking about spending a lot of time and money for a less than ideal result here?
My Savarez sound like these Hannabachs (and I already noted the similarity in tone with Mike Inez's Unplugged tone, so nylon minds hear alike, I guess):
I've tried several different types of piezo equipped semi-acoustic instruments with nylon strings and many of them sounded great. But they were all specifically designed for nylon strings. Nylon strings with a piezo on a solid body instrument...? I guess Parker Fly had a nylon version (but I believe it had some kind of optical pickup, please correct me if I'm wrong). I think Godin had done something like this too? But these were GUITARS, not basses. And they were specifically designed for this.
They do have classical guitar or, perhaps, "crossover" neck profiles. And classical guitar bridges for ease of adaptability. They might have preamps with EQ points optimised for the strings. I wouldn't expect anything less from a 2000 buck instrument. This doesn't mean a "cheap" (electric piezo bridges not actually being that cheap) experiment can't be done and turn out satisfactory.
I guess it COULD work but I remain sceptical until proved otherwise. I also suspect the instrument would have to be specifically designed for nylon+piezo to get a decent tone, rather than just installing nylon strings + a piezo on a random electric (or even acoustic) bass.
I didn't check out all the strings you mentioned. I just took a quick look at the LaBellas and they actually warn specifically against using these strings on a bass guitar.
See my comments here.
Will this actually work? Sorry for all the questions, I'm genuinely intrigued by this, I just can't see how it could possibly work? Or at least not how it could produce an acceptable tone. I would LOVE to hear more if you've actually done this! And if not... Well, you got me thinking, which is always a good thing!
For what it's worth the Thomastik strings I mentioned before are actually designed for bass guitar and won't have any of the issues I've mentioned in this post.
Why? Magic? Either all those issues (need for higher action/more neck relief/intonation room, possible fragility of the string) would be valid concerns for the Thomastiks as well (they are nylon-core strings with tension in the upper twenty pounds), or they wouldn't with the other strings I mention.
I still think these strings will as close as the OP can get, at least without spending a lot of time, money and with an uncertain result. But please convince me that I'm wrong!
The La Bella and the Savarez sets cost around 25 dollars, so I feel confident in recommending folks see for themselves. And it's just the 30" scale sets that break the piggybank: the Sav medium and long scale 4-string ones are ridiculously inexpensive at 15 and 17 bucks respectively.
Or maybe the OP should just buy one of those contrabass guitars... Actually, this seems like the most sensible choice if the OP is looking for that specific type of tone.
Eh, at least one grand is what those go for.
Excellent post! Thanks, much appreciated!
I think I'm gonna give it a try. Sounds like a lot of fun! I must confess I'm still a bit sceptical but you make some very good points and it's always fun to try something new. And like you pointed out, a set of strings won't break the bank.What a great resource Talkbass is. I would NEVER even have considered this possibility myself. I'd love to have something like this in my studio.
I gotta say, I expected the answer to the OPs question to be a big NO but this has turned out to be very interesting.
I stand corrected!
Your only option is to install a midi pickup (Roland GKB, etc) and have a synth driven by the midi input, supply the "sound" of a nylon string as you play.
If you want a really low sounding nylon string sound, borrow a buddy's classical guitar and run into through an octave pedal.
If you want a really low sounding nylon string sound, borrow a buddy's classical guitar and run into through an octave pedal.
I've never actually tried it, but check your local hardware or garden store for replacement line trimmer (whipper snipper) line. It's solid nylon, cheap, and available in typical bass string sizes. I have heard of people using it for washtubs, bass ukes etc. so worth a shot. Just make sure you get round stuff as much of it is square or hexagonal these days to provide sharper cutting edges. Comes in nice colours as well.
I'm with @HaphAsSard all the way. At his suggestion I went with a set of the Savarez long-scalers for my big bodied Dean, after having tried rounds, flats, and tapes, and the Savarez beat them all. Best sound, comparable acoustic volume, and -- most unexpected of all -- sounded good even with my Dean's passive electronics.
Where did you find the Savarez strings, I have an inexpensive abg that I want to try them on. I had purchased a LaBella 'Brian Bromberg' piccolo nylon set years ago that I wanted to try and the G string broke just days after installing them. I was just getting them to stay in tune too.
I had to order online. There are a shorter and longer sets of these; with a short-scale bass I expect you would want the shorter.
One caveat: IMO these strings are worth it for the tone, but it takes foreEVER for them to stretch and hold pitch.
If you break one on the gig, good luck!
I found them at Strings by Mail , do you know of another source? I'm considering putting them on my Dean EABC5 now instead of my cheapo. I can imagine string breakage would be an issue, would probably take my Washburn AB20 with RotoSound TruBass 88's as back up on a gig ~ that bass loves those strings.
I have Thomastik-Infeld Acoustic Bass Acousticore AB344 strings on my Martin B1 acoustic bass guitar and
I think it sounds a lot like a big classical guitar.
I think it sounds a lot like a big classical guitar.
I might play my Dean EABC5 more and my classical/jazz duo partner would really be pleased with that.
This looks like a troll!
NO you can't get a classical guitar sound out of a bass because it's a bass, not a classical guitar. The 4 strings on a bass are an octave lower than the lowest 4 strings on a classical guitar. You also need some kind of metal core in the strings on an electric bass. Nylon core strings don't have any metal in them for the pickups to detect as they vibrate. If you could find such a thing, nylon-core bass strings would perhaps work on an acoustic bass, but not on a normal electric bass.
If you want your short scale bass to sound like an acoustic stand-up bass U-bass makes some strings to go along with their U-bass Ukulele that look like rubber strings. Their aren't rubber but the really do sound like a classic stand-up bass.
You're the one that came here looking to troll. The rest of us are here to share information.
Thanks OP for starting the thread and thanks @HaphAsSard for that info. I did not know that there are octave down strings for a regular Classical guitar. Do I have to recut my nut grooves and will I have to enlarge the holes in the bridge saddle to accommodate larger diameter strings?
Yes you would need to do all those things and a word of caution I advise against doing this as classical guitars are fragile and not really built to the rigors or stress of larger and higher tension strings.
