Nylon Tape Wound strings and string ground issues

[hogy]

What am I missing here? The nylon tape wrap removes string ground. The bass buzzes (talking vintage style passive basses).

I actually like the sound of tape wounds, but this is a deal breaker. Have people played them since the 1960s and just lived with the buzz?

 

[Aloe]

well, back in 70s? 80s? -- some players grounded themselves with a wire.

that's what happens when you're touching the strings: you're not grounding the bass, you're grounding yourself.

but basically yes, most people are not bothered with nylon or other coated strings being dielectric.

 

[Winslow]

I would have thought the ball ends were still in contact with the bridge plate, which is in contact with the ground wire running to/under it. The exception to that might be if the bass is strung through the body, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[trothwell]

"In the mix", the buzz generally isn't that much of an issue. I did have at least one bass (passive) that made almost no buzz sound whatsoever, so whether if it was extra-well shielded or what, it's possible.

 

[iiipopes]

Two solutions:
1) install a pickup that has a chrome cover, or a chrome cover on an existing pickup, and run the bridge ground to the chrome cover. Then plant your thumb on the cover to kill the hum and noise.
2) install EMG actives. They are "internally grounded" so a bridge ground is not used, anyway.

 

[GIBrat51]

What am I missing here? The nylon tape wrap removes string ground. The bass buzzes (talking vintage style passive basses).

I actually like the sound of tape wounds, but this is a deal breaker. Have people played them since the 1960s and just lived with the buzz?

Well...
In my (admittedly) limited experience with tape wounds? It has just depended on the bass...
- '90s MIK Rogue VB-100 Violin Bass. It's worn Roto RS88m TruBass Tapewounds for... about 15 years now. Their ball ends ground nicely on the grounded trapeze tailpiece; never been any buzz that I can hear. I suppose it could be that the humbucker pickups are helping, but... no buzz there...
- '06 Carvin LB-20. I had the 4 heavy strings from a 5-string set of La Bella Black Tapes on that bass for a few years, when I was trying to like the BEAD thing. I had them top loaded on the bass's Hipshot A-style bridge. Again, ball ends grounded on the grounded bridge - and no buzz. Would they have buzzed if I'd strung them thru-body? I have no idea...
The bass has an "Option 50" switch that splits both humbucker pickups (why is a long story); no buzz when they're split, either...
- '93 Canadian Fury Anthem Bass. It's a custom made fretless bass, that was made to sound like an upright. The custom-wound humbucker pickups are made to do that; and it has to wear tape wound strings. As I found out when I tried to string it with something else.... Problem is, it's custom made bridge/base plate/D-tuner is thru-body Only. And, yes; wearing it's Roto TruBass Tapes, it does buzz; a little; faintly (unless you crank the gain up). As I have it set up? You can hear it, but... only in a quiet room. The buzz is not there when I'm playing it. On stage, in a band? You'd never hear it... So;
I guess it depends on the bass - and how you string it...

 

[fdeck]

The only tapewounds in my possession are on my ABG, so I had to take a close look. The metal core of the string is wrapped around the ball end, which is also metallic. That should be good, except that 3 of the ball ends are painted, so they might not make electrical contact without scraping off some of the paint. If they do make good contact, then they should be grounded through the bridge, unless it's a string-through bridge. In that case, you might have to figure out how to ground the ferrules.

 

[hogy]

I would have thought the ball ends were still in contact with the bridge plate, which is in contact with the ground wire running to/under it. The exception to that might be if the bass is strung through the body, but maybe I'm missing something.

The only tapewounds in my possession are on my ABG, so I had to take a close look. The metal core of the string is wrapped around the ball end, which is also metallic. That should be good, except that 3 of the ball ends are painted, so they might not make electrical contact without scraping off some of the paint. If they do make good contact, then they should be grounded through the bridge, unless it's a string-through bridge. In that case, you might have to figure out how to ground the ferrules.

That's not how it works. Your body (through the skin of your fingertips) has to connect to string ground. That's why passive basses/guitars buzz when you take your hands of the strings.

With nylon coated strings this doesn't work, regardless of whether the core of the string is grounded through the ball end. You're not touching the core when playing.

 

[ajkula66]

My experience has been that certain combinations of basses/tapewounds buzz more than the others, but can't really explain why.

Having said that, while I find it somewhat annoying while practising - my "main" bass happens to wear LB White Nylons and is the one that buzzes the most - it gets lost very quickly in a band situation, let alone in a serious recording envronment.

My $0.02 only...

 

[sunbeast]

Yes people have just lived with it in many cases for decades, much like they’ve put up with single coil pickups. The noise from tapewounds is the same noise that extensive grounded shielding in a bass will often decrease or eliminate (and the same noise that you touching metal strings tends to eliminate)- so shielding would be my first move if I was trying to use tapes on an unshielded (or undershielded) instrument. It will also depend on the instrument and the environment you are playing in to a degree (why some people have less of an issue with it). As mentioned, active EMGs are a solution too, as they have extensive internal shielding that eliminates the need for shielding in the bass.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I would have thought the ball ends were still in contact with the bridge plate, which is in contact with the ground wire running to/under it. The exception to that might be if the bass is strung through the body, but maybe I'm missing something.

You missed the post immediately before yours by @Aloe. The ball ends of the nylon tape wounds are in contact with the bridge; but the person playing the bass is NOT making contact with the metal part of the string if playing tapewounds.

@Turnaround explained this well in a recent post. The player gets grounded by touching the metallic strings IF the strings are in good contact with a well grounded bridge. If the human behind the bass isn’t grounded by touching some well grounded metallic part of the bass, that person is a big antenna catching electrical fields and “assisting” the bass with catching them also.

Shielding the bass will help. A bass can be well grounded (pot cases, bridge, jack, etc. well bonded together), but poorly shielded (wiring and pickups having no metal foil or conductive paint surrounding the cavity they are inside, exposing them to electrical fields). Poorly shielded basses really show out when strung with tapewounds

 

[Slidlow]

I have used nylon tape wound on my basses for almost fifty years. Never had a grounding problem. Guess I’m lucky from some of the things stated here?