- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
Interesting factoid: Snocap was started by the same guys who started Napster. For some reason, that makes me a bit suspicious of the whole thing...
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Offering music with an "option to pay" plan doesn't work.
- Thread starter Benjamin Strange
- Start date
Maybe those 18% are the only ones who would have paid for a copy in the first place
If you had a "free coffee" line right next to a "$5 coffee" line, I think it would relate to your situation a little more
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
But if you were told upfront that the free coffee didn't taste nearly as good as the $5 coffee, would you still choose the free stuff?
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
I think at this point we were talking about the Saul Williams record.
What I was doing was offering music with an option to pay any amount you wished. After 2600 downloads, you'd think at least one person would have sent me a dollar. Nope...
I guess I can't complain too much, really. I had hoped for a little bit of consideration, but apparently it wasn't going to happen. I wonder if I had put these up for $5 instead, would anybody have bought them at all?
Apparently if it doesn't work for Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails, it's not going to work for the little guy, either. What a shame.
Shame on whom? The listeners?
If 2600 listen to your music then it's time you get some shows done, if only 10% show up you'll still have played to 260 paying guests. It's been my perception that most of the money in music lies in the live performance and merch. Maybe start selling shirts.
If 2600 listen to your music then it's time you get some shows done, if only 10% show up you'll still have played to 260 paying guests. It's been my perception that most of the money in music lies in the live performance and merch. Maybe start selling shirts.
Na, that aint the way to go how many people love bands and have their albums but never buy a shirt.
All they need to do is invent a media that can't be copied by the public, and then the music industry refuse to put out any music then on that media.
I already see all this free download crap ruining music. You just don't see bands as good as when I was younger. It's not worth it anymore to put your life into trying to be an awesome band, when you won't ever make any serious money, because millions of people will just share the files and never pay you anything.
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
Heh... Burnt Infant t-shirts. I think the kiddies would get expelled for wearing one of those.
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
You know it could be a simple manner of people feeling that your download was not worth it, some could also feel that you should have paid them for the bandwith that they used to download your stuff.
Another thought is that there could be a considerable delay in the time that someone downloads something and then decide that would like to provide the author something in return.
If you're looking to make money I suggest you post something for download that more people will be inclined to make a donation to.
It's also a good idea not to expect to much so that your existance is more or pleasant suprise when you do get money.
Lastly,
Keep your day or night job.
Another thought is that there could be a considerable delay in the time that someone downloads something and then decide that would like to provide the author something in return.
If you're looking to make money I suggest you post something for download that more people will be inclined to make a donation to.
It's also a good idea not to expect to much so that your existance is more or pleasant suprise when you do get money.
Lastly,
Keep your day or night job.
I heard your albums??
I would not pay for it....it's a bit repetitive for me...
Just me though, they all sound just like you stated.
"a whale sticking it's D*Ck in a toaster"
good luck with your music
I would not pay for it....it's a bit repetitive for me...
Just me though, they all sound just like you stated.
"a whale sticking it's D*Ck in a toaster"
good luck with your music
First let me say that I checked out Burning Infant a few months back from another post of yours. i quite liked it. I didn't download, but did bookmark the site.
Well, yes, but again they have experienced the product and decided it has a monetary value. Unfortunately it is all about branding and your brand is unknown.
And you're not Robert Fripp. You have no reputation or (i'm guessing) have not yet accumulated an audience that realizes the value of your hard work in their lives. I'm sure the only reason that anyone chose to pay for Radiohead or NIN's downloads was because they knew what they were getting and already knew the value it would have in their live.
Well, yes, but again they have experienced the product and decided it has a monetary value. Unfortunately it is all about branding and your brand is unknown.
It fascinates me how the music industry/business and how people feel about it varies so much from person to person and place to place.
I've been having a lot of conversations lately about this topic. Not to mention I have been thinking about it because I live in Los Angeles where the industry is based, more or less. If you live in LA then you know that this is a wonderful place, but it's niche and there isn't really a whole lot of great stuff.
Here some stuff to consider that I have found quiet interesting lately:
Not that long ago, I met and spoke with Martin Atkins (he wrote the book called TOUR:SMART), and he was saying to me that to 'make it' in music today is so based around gigging out/touring and merch. He was very much of the opinion on DIY ethics, staying away from labels unless they really offer you a great deal, touring heavily and consistently and selling as much merch as you can. He also kept saying that bands that come up today either need to have amazing music, a fantastic live show or both, becuase that's it.
I saw Autolux not that ago and was talking to Greg. They have a second album done, however, DMZ (label) either folded or got bought up and now they don't know if the record will ever see the light of day. But Greg told me that they make more money selling out 500-1000 seat venues on the road then they make off a record. Well, this is a somewhat common thought. DMZ, though, was an independent label and even then as an artist if you still don't make much coming from independent, then touring is it.
I also recently read David Byrne's articles in Wired. Both the article interviewing Thom Yorke and Byrne's own. The Yorke interview wasn't really that great save to say he mentioend that they made $3 mil. from In Rainbows (more than all of their records released on labels combined). Maybe it shouldn't be, but that is a little startling.
Byrne himself claimed the age of the CD is dead. My interpretation of that is that the ART of the recording age: packaging, artwork, liner notes, tangible goods, etc., is over. Why bother recording at all if no one is gonna buy it? Do people still really believe in and want tangible art/music/film? Or have we gotten to a point where we just want whatever we can get so long as it's free? Will bands have to start making super-deluxe-amazing box sets of records just to sell them because, perhaps ultimately, people will get the 'CD' for free anyway?
The common thought, as many of us here apparently go with, is that wether you let your music get dowloaded at a price vs. free/donation is really not worth asking becuase we believe we can make our money back on the road in hard touring and merch.
Personally, I'm the kind of guy that buys a CD of a band if I like them, cost is secondary. I feel that we have a lot of industry critics waving a finger at the industry, saying 'bad music corporations,' and then going out to iTunes or SnoCap or whatever. (Byrne mentions in his artical bands actually make less money per record off of download via those avenues.)
The artist should be supported directly. If you like a band, I feel like, you should be able to go to their website or MySpace and e-mail them and be able to PayPal or send them snail-mail money for stuff OR just get it at shows. We don't really stand behind our 'heroes' so much anymore. We need people like the Deadheads again but for a new age: folks who will e-mail bands, call bands, come to all the shows, start street teams, throw house-parites and have the band in mom's basement, on and on....
It's romantic and semi-unrealistic, that I get. But I think the biggest problem all young musicians and bands face is how do they compete with what is?
Sure, it's easy to say just put your stuff out free. Radiohead, NIN, Self... they all did it. Thing is, they have already made their name when the business was at, some would say, its zenith. Not to mention, by and large, probably have made the majority of their big money.
Bands that are coming out nowadays have to compete with that. HOW!? Free with the option to pay isn't guarenteed, the reality of getting any decent contract isn't impossible but isn't common, touring is a rough and tumble life that not everyone wants, money is always an issue it seems, especially if you go DIY as a new band and (maybe the biggest change) location doesn't matter anymore - there are so many really great artists springing up from places that aren't NYC or LA. Not to say that those places don't have their perks, but let's face it, it's probably easier to be in some college town and build up that way then just take off in the big city.
Even the guys in Nada Surf have day jobs. I think the one dude is at record store when they aren't on the road. That's sort of becoming the reality. I personally don't have an issue with that, though, I'd love to stop doing 9-5
.
Someone told me the other day that the best way to make it these days is just to sell out from the start. Go to some drink company or whatever (when you've got some noteriety) and attempt to strike a deal. If it actually worked, you've got a tour sponser and a commercial maybe.
I believe there is no more better and exciting time to be a musician, but live music seems to be where it's at and if you are the faint of heart or can't stand lonliness, well then that life isn't for you. The question, IMO, remains, how do you stand out from everyone else out there? What makes paying for and coming to your live show better than anyone else? Hopefully without being gimmicky. Not everyone makes genius, ground-breaking music, so that alone these days won't sell.
I don't really see this, aside from the collapse of the major label industry, being any different than the late 70's/early 80's when we had bands like Black Flag starting their own labels and all that. You get out what you put. My grandpa was right.
I've been having a lot of conversations lately about this topic. Not to mention I have been thinking about it because I live in Los Angeles where the industry is based, more or less. If you live in LA then you know that this is a wonderful place, but it's niche and there isn't really a whole lot of great stuff.
Here some stuff to consider that I have found quiet interesting lately:
Not that long ago, I met and spoke with Martin Atkins (he wrote the book called TOUR:SMART), and he was saying to me that to 'make it' in music today is so based around gigging out/touring and merch. He was very much of the opinion on DIY ethics, staying away from labels unless they really offer you a great deal, touring heavily and consistently and selling as much merch as you can. He also kept saying that bands that come up today either need to have amazing music, a fantastic live show or both, becuase that's it.
I saw Autolux not that ago and was talking to Greg. They have a second album done, however, DMZ (label) either folded or got bought up and now they don't know if the record will ever see the light of day. But Greg told me that they make more money selling out 500-1000 seat venues on the road then they make off a record. Well, this is a somewhat common thought. DMZ, though, was an independent label and even then as an artist if you still don't make much coming from independent, then touring is it.
I also recently read David Byrne's articles in Wired. Both the article interviewing Thom Yorke and Byrne's own. The Yorke interview wasn't really that great save to say he mentioend that they made $3 mil. from In Rainbows (more than all of their records released on labels combined). Maybe it shouldn't be, but that is a little startling.
Byrne himself claimed the age of the CD is dead. My interpretation of that is that the ART of the recording age: packaging, artwork, liner notes, tangible goods, etc., is over. Why bother recording at all if no one is gonna buy it? Do people still really believe in and want tangible art/music/film? Or have we gotten to a point where we just want whatever we can get so long as it's free? Will bands have to start making super-deluxe-amazing box sets of records just to sell them because, perhaps ultimately, people will get the 'CD' for free anyway?
The common thought, as many of us here apparently go with, is that wether you let your music get dowloaded at a price vs. free/donation is really not worth asking becuase we believe we can make our money back on the road in hard touring and merch.
Personally, I'm the kind of guy that buys a CD of a band if I like them, cost is secondary. I feel that we have a lot of industry critics waving a finger at the industry, saying 'bad music corporations,' and then going out to iTunes or SnoCap or whatever. (Byrne mentions in his artical bands actually make less money per record off of download via those avenues.)
The artist should be supported directly. If you like a band, I feel like, you should be able to go to their website or MySpace and e-mail them and be able to PayPal or send them snail-mail money for stuff OR just get it at shows. We don't really stand behind our 'heroes' so much anymore. We need people like the Deadheads again but for a new age: folks who will e-mail bands, call bands, come to all the shows, start street teams, throw house-parites and have the band in mom's basement, on and on....
It's romantic and semi-unrealistic, that I get. But I think the biggest problem all young musicians and bands face is how do they compete with what is?
Sure, it's easy to say just put your stuff out free. Radiohead, NIN, Self... they all did it. Thing is, they have already made their name when the business was at, some would say, its zenith. Not to mention, by and large, probably have made the majority of their big money.
Bands that are coming out nowadays have to compete with that. HOW!? Free with the option to pay isn't guarenteed, the reality of getting any decent contract isn't impossible but isn't common, touring is a rough and tumble life that not everyone wants, money is always an issue it seems, especially if you go DIY as a new band and (maybe the biggest change) location doesn't matter anymore - there are so many really great artists springing up from places that aren't NYC or LA. Not to say that those places don't have their perks, but let's face it, it's probably easier to be in some college town and build up that way then just take off in the big city.
Even the guys in Nada Surf have day jobs. I think the one dude is at record store when they aren't on the road. That's sort of becoming the reality. I personally don't have an issue with that, though, I'd love to stop doing 9-5
.Someone told me the other day that the best way to make it these days is just to sell out from the start. Go to some drink company or whatever (when you've got some noteriety) and attempt to strike a deal. If it actually worked, you've got a tour sponser and a commercial maybe.
I believe there is no more better and exciting time to be a musician, but live music seems to be where it's at and if you are the faint of heart or can't stand lonliness, well then that life isn't for you. The question, IMO, remains, how do you stand out from everyone else out there? What makes paying for and coming to your live show better than anyone else? Hopefully without being gimmicky. Not everyone makes genius, ground-breaking music, so that alone these days won't sell.
I don't really see this, aside from the collapse of the major label industry, being any different than the late 70's/early 80's when we had bands like Black Flag starting their own labels and all that. You get out what you put. My grandpa was right.
