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Official Ampeg Portaflex Club

I acquired an Oliver G-300 amp head, quite a few months back, and stored it away. A couple of weeks ago, when I had some days off, I rode over to Durham (NC) to Church, Tuesday night (19Aug) for a pot-luck supper. On Sundays, I carry show-and-tell to my friend Don, who is our music leader and loves to see my amp projects.

Anyway, I pulled this amp out of storage to carry for him to see that Tuesday evening. Of course, after the meal, he sat with this very heavy amp head on his knees, just turning it around while both of us studied it closely. I had not powered it up, so I could tell him anything about it.

Told you all that, to tell you this. It didn't go back into storage. The next day (Wednesday), I pulled the tubes and tested them. It had two modern JJ 7027A's, so that tells me that someone has used, or attempted to use it in the recent past. One of the three 6EU7's was bad, so I replace it with a known good one out of my stash. The 6AN8A was bad, so I found one in an old tube caddy, that I had not inventoried. The 6DR7 was very good.

Warmed it up on the lamp limiter, going through several stages of progressively higher wattage bulbs, until I reached 100W. That's when I switch over to full wall voltage/current. Not having any literature on this amp, but armed with the schematics of the other models offered, I was testing it with an 8 ohm impedance speaker.

It sounded great. Beautiful Reverb and Tremolo, testing with a little Supro guitar. So, I shut it down, put my bias test adapters in. Note here: I had already removed the chassis from the cabinet, but kept them close together, to be able to connect the Reverb tank. Not only did I want to check the bias, but I wanted to get some voltage readings and create a chart for my records. So, with the chassis inverted, and everything connected. I made another quick check to verify that the amp was still working ok. It was, so I began the process of taking measurements. This lasted for about 30 minutes. When I finished, I shut it down. By the way. The bias looked good. With a plate voltage of 518vDC, a desired bias would be 47+mA. One tube as right at that, and the other was something like 44mA. I was satisfied.

This is where the fun stopped. After taking my readings and shutting it down to disconnect the bias tester, I fired it up one more time to strum a few chords through it, before putting it back in the cab. No sound. I shut it down and checked the speaker. A bit over 6 ohms DC. So, I put it back and fired it up. Checked all my voltages and the bias. Everything checked the same as it was when it worked.

I made a quick listener with a powered headphones and a .022uf cap as my probe (rubber gloves on my hands). I had a good strong signal (guitar in a chair where I could pluck a string) after the first gain stage on each channel. A bit weaker where all combines at the grid of the 6AN8A. Nothing past that.

By the way, I have an untested PA-100X that I've had quite a while. I borrowed this tube from that one, tested it, and installed. Now, I have a weak sound out of the speaker. Very weak at full volume, from either channel. So for now, I'm thinking I'm losing it at this tube.

That was Wednesday (20Aug). I've spent the last week hand-tracing the circuit and making a schematic, as well as a crude layout of both boards. Finished that Wednesday of this week (27Aug). Both are 99% accurate. I will say 100% when I am able to troubleshoot the amp properly, and verify my work, as I go through it.

Unfortunately, I am working long hours, starting today (Fri), so troubleshooting is on hold. I am attaching my work, so far. When I am at a point (maybe the end of next week) where I can troubleshoot again, I will post my progress.

In the meantime, please look it over and comment. Note corrections for me to make, if you see errors. Thanks.

Jack
 

Attachments

I acquired an Oliver G-300 amp head...

Very nice work documenting and debugging Jack.

It's possible that you broke a solder joint when you were taking your readings. I would remove the 6AN8A tube and re-solder the tube socket connections. Check the tube socket tension on the pins, especially pin-7. If you have some deoxit, scrub the 6AN8A tube socket terminals.

Pin-7 on the 6AN8A is suspicious. It's a supply voltage grid and is typically somewhere around 60V or 100V depending on the circuit. I would check the B+ before the 1M resistor R32 and the voltage after at pin-7. I haven't seen the capacitors C13, C14, and C15 used in any other Oliver amp. They usually include them to resolve issues. C14 could be shorting which would pull down the voltage as you are seeing at Pin-7. Try disconnecting the leg of that capacitor at pin-7 and take another reading.


David
 
Very nice work documenting and debugging Jack.

It's possible that you broke a solder joint when you were taking your readings. I would remove the 6AN8A tube and re-solder the tube socket connections. Check the tube socket tension on the pins, especially pin-7. If you have some deoxit, scrub the 6AN8A tube socket terminals.

Pin-7 on the 6AN8A is suspicious. It's a supply voltage grid and is typically somewhere around 60V or 100V depending on the circuit. I would check the B+ before the 1M resistor R32 and the voltage after at pin-7. I haven't seen the capacitors C13, C14, and C15 used in any other Oliver amp. They usually include them to resolve issues. C14 could be shorting which would pull down the voltage as you are seeing at Pin-7. Try disconnecting the leg of that capacitor at pin-7 and take another reading.


David

Thanks for the quick response, David.

Yes, quite possible that a solder joint is on the loose. My frustration came with the lack of a schematic, and not knowing my way around the circuit boards. That's resolved. But man, when I was finished, I was burned out from drawing. So, I really haven't pursued it. I'll only have a little bit of time to look at it, when I get home this evening. That will be when I inspect for broken joints. I have Deoxit, but will wait until I can devote a longer spell, before cleaning.

I'll look at C14, and if it's easy to get to in the chassis, I'll de-solder tomorrow evening. Mounted in the chassis, the main board is not so easy to get to the components, and not so easy to get out, with everything attached. But, it that's what it takes, the out it comes. That will be next weekend at the soonest. I'm thinking, though, that this particular disc capacitor is something that I can pinch and pull, while heating one of the legs on the other side.

I'll check the voltages on both sides of R32, and record them.

I like making my own schematics, just so I can put component labels on them. Sure is handy when this type of discussion is taking place.

Anyway, more to come, and I really appreciate your help. I'm brain tired from looking at it too close. One of the most difficult drawings that I've made. Just can't get to the crowded components to see their landing points.

I'll be back. Have a good one.

Jack
 
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I didn't know if this was the correct forum for this amp, but if it is, I'm wondering if I can post my Oliver PA-100X here as well. I'm thinking it will come out of storage when this one is up and running again. I can at least troubleshoot any issues with it, much easier. The circuit board appears to be identical to the main board on this one.

Jack
 
David -

Looks like C14 is fairly easy to get to. Tomorrow evening, I see if I can't lift one leg. Also, I was able to identify it by it's part number. It's a .1uf-400v. After supper, I'll connect the speaker and power, and get a voltage reading on both sides of R32. Should have that posted in about an hour or less.

Jack
 
I didn't know if this was the correct forum for this amp, but if it is, I'm wondering if I can post my Oliver PA-100X here as well. I'm thinking it will come out of storage when this one is up and running again. I can at least troubleshoot any issues with it, much easier. The circuit board appears to be identical to the main board on this one.

Jack

Absolutely post the pics here!

Take your time with the G-300. There is a 0.1uF cap on other Oliver amps that goes from pin-7 to ground. It might be a good idea to recheck the wiring. Is the 0.1 going to ground or to pin-9 as you have it on the schematic. If it is not going to ground you can try a jumper to ground on one end and to pin-7 on the other end.

Be very careful when you are soldering that cap. It's fragile and you can destroy it with too much heat. Same thing goes for the tube socket terminals.

Oliver P-502 phase inverter.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
Absolutely post the pics here!

Take your time with the G-300. There is a 0.1uF cap on other Oliver amps that goes from pin-7 to ground. It might be a good idea to recheck the wiring. Is the 0.1 going to ground or to pin-9 as you have it on the schematic. If it is not going to ground you can try a jumper to ground on one end and to pin-7 on the other end.

Be very careful when you are soldering that cap. It's fragile and you can destroy it with too much heat. Same thing goes for the tube socket terminals.

Will do, on the taking time. I have some heat sink tweezers that I use on solid state and old caps. I'll sink C14 when I de-solder it. The sink is tight enough that I can use it to pull on the lead while I'm heating.

Just made a quick check and it appears that my drawing is correct. But, tomorrow I'll lift the opposite end from Pin-7 (where it is soldered to the trace going to Pin-9) and let it swing while I test again. That will confirm its connection point as by my drawing, or otherwise.

My voltage reading awhile ago for B+4 was 436vDC, same at the topside of R32. I left the meter on the high scale, and checked Pin-7 again. Zero volts. Didn't bother to drop the scale to check again.

Anyway, more tomorrow. Have a good one.

Jack
 
Sorry about that, you are correct Jimmy, Yamaha Electronic Pianos definitely weren't built in Kansas City. There was a different piano, who's name I can't recall, that looked like a spinet, with 88 keys and real strings, but had a built in amp, and a 1/4" out so you could use it with a external amp. Wish I could remember it's name. Cheers :);)

Ric

Baldwin made the 'Electropiano', it had a harp and strings. We hauled one all over the south in the early 70s. Definitely sounded better than a Rhodes or 1st generation Wurlitzer but HEAVY!
BaldwinElectropiano_zps8979086f.jpg
 
I don't have in of the other Oliver model schematics that have this high resolution.

Mark has some redrawn ones on his web site: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Other than that, I'm not aware of any high resolution schematics available. Otherwise there is the one attached.

It might be easier for you to simply replace that 0.1uF capacitor with a new one to test it that will resolve the issue. But I would do all the other preliminary things mentioned such as desoldering the connections at the tube socket, re-tensioning the socket terminal if necessary, cleaning the connections, etc. first.
 

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Baldwin made the 'Electropiano', it had a harp and strings. We hauled one all over the south in the early 70s. Definitely sounded better than a Rhodes or 1st generation Wurlitzer but HEAVY!
BaldwinElectropiano_zps8979086f.jpg

That's It, I remember it sounding really good compared to either Fender Rhodes, or the Wurlitzer, thanks so much for posting this. Our keyboard player, Mary Ann Schulte had one and she rocked that
instrument. It was especially good for Billy Joel, Doobie Brothers, Stevie Wonder, etc. It was heavy but, pretty compact. Mary Ann brought along tuning hammers to do touch up, but it stayed in tune relatively well.
Until she got the Yamaha PF 70 it was her main piano.

Ric
 
Mark has some redrawn ones on his web site: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Other than that, I'm not aware of any high resolution schematics available. Otherwise there is the one attached.

It might be easier for you to simply replace that 0.1uF capacitor with a new one to test it that will resolve the issue. But I would do all the other preliminary things mentioned such as desoldering the connections at the tube socket, re-tensioning the socket terminal if necessary, cleaning the connections, etc. first.

Couldn't do any testing last night (Sat). Long day a work. I'll have to play this by ear, as the holiday weekend may be a bit busy at work.

A friend of mine told me that his '71 Sunn Sceptre has basically the same configuration as my amp (around the 6AN8A tube, that is). Looking at the schematic, the Tremolo has the same basic configuration, as well. The LDR is in series with the signal path, between the first stage of Channel 1, and the Tone Stack for the same. Makes me wonder who did what, first. No matter, makes me feel confident about my drawing (around this area) now.

I'll probably lift the downstream leg of C14, measure R32, and give it a try just to see if I get my volume back. I plan to follow your advice and clean all the tube sockets with DeOxit.

Along those lines. At work (I'm an Instrumentation/Controls/Electrical Technician at a power plant), we use a product called No-Ox on our electrical connections, particularly those of dis-similar metals. The way I apply it is to put an ever so thin coat on each surface to be mated. Then, I wipe it off with a dry cloth. That way, it has an almost unseen coat that prevents oxidation for years. We have some connections that are in a not-so-dry environment that have never oxidized year many, many years. Makes for a very good electrical connection.

My point is, I've tried it on some old octal tube applications, but not these smaller pins. Seems to work well on those easy to get to socket inserts.

Also, thanks for the link to Mark's site. I already have it bookmarked, but did not think to associate him with this amp. Should have been automatic, but sometimes I don't see/think the obvious.

Anyway, I'll post any and all work and results soon. Thanks for your help and suggestions. PA-100X coming soon.

Jack
 
Don't worry about getting to it. When you do, you do. This is supposed to be fun stuff.

It is possible that Jess Oliver adopted that part of the phase inverter circuit from the Sunn design. It was a pretty common thing to share ideas. I know that at one point, Jess had obtained some transformers from Sunn to use in his amps so perhaps he talked to Conrad Sundholm about design issues. The Sunn amps were well thought out and sounded good.

I find the inter-dental brushed, available at drug stores, are useful for scrubbing tube pins and socket terminals with whatever product is used to remove oxidation. Sounds like No-Ox would be good to use to protect the surfaces.
 
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David -

Thanks for the tip on the inter-dental brushes. They are on my 'grocery list' for the next trip to town.

Another product that we use for the same purpose is Mobilgrease 28 Synthetic. It weathers better, for harsh environments. I would say No-Ox for the climate controlled, or at least dry, environments. And, the Mobilgrease for say storage in no-so-ideal environments. Same application and same results. I don't know the difference in price.

Jack
 
It was a pretty common thing to share ideas. I know that at one point, Jess had obtained some transformers from Sunn to use in his amps so perhaps he talked to Conrad Sundholm about design issues. The Sunn amps were well thought out and sounded good.

+1 I had the good fortune to see Norm Sundholm with the Kingsmen, when I was still in high school. He was using a Sun that his brother built, perhaps a 200S. Really good sounding amplifer, for 1969.
 
+1 I had the good fortune to see Norm Sundholm with the Kingsmen, when I was still in high school. He was using a Sun that his brother built, perhaps a 200S. Really good sounding amplifer, for 1969.

Must have been a pleasure to see the Kingsmen live. They were real musicians.

Someone I played with in 1969 had a Sunn amp. I don't recall the model but it was a combo with 212's. We used to plug a guitar, mic and bass into it for smaller gigs. No problem handling all three. We mixed vocals by proximity, moving closer or further from the mic to get the right sound. I remember being impressed with the quality of the build, it had a great tone and was studio quiet.