Offset/Staggered 410? Does what I want exist?

[ric4682]

TL;DR - I’m looking for a tilt back cab that isn’t so huge (412, 810, etc) that a sound man will tell me to turn down before I even plug in, but also isn’t so small that it looks stupid or is narrower than my DB751 head I just bought. An offset 410 seems like the perfect candidate for this but I’m wondering if there’s any good options other than the ones I’ve listed.


I recently bought my dream head (Aguilar DB751) and will be buying a cab to pair with it in the next few months.

In hunting for the perfect ratio of ease of transport vs. output and punch I’ve been looking at a ton of different options.

In doing a lot of loading and unloading across various terrains for wedding gigs over the years I find a tilt back design to be the easiest to move around. So that’s got me wondering why there aren’t more offset 410’s? It seems like the perfect ratio of size and sound, but still able to be moved around easily with one hand.

-Berg has one, but it’s not THAT different of a footprint from a standard 410, plus it doesn’t have the tilt back aspect I prefer. And expensive, though I’m sure it’s worth it.

-Trace Elliot has one, but it rolls on its back and despite being Neo speakers is still heavy, and very expensive. Closer to what I’m looking for though.

-The Laney DBV-410 seems like the PERFECT solution, but there’s none near me to try so I have no idea how it sounds. And it’s also on the heavier side with ceramic magnets. I just love the format of this cab though.

I know that Revsound make a totally vertical 410, but that’s too tall and narrow for my preferences. Not to mention would look ridiculous with the DB on top like some weird capital “T” shaped rig.

A super 212 like a Barefaced or something is also on the short list, but it would be cool to have something just a bit larger and taller to get the sound closer to my ears on smaller stages.

Am I missing any other ones?
Is there a reason there aren’t more of the them?

 

[Aloe]

uhm, maybe consider a vertical 2x210 stack? it's taller and easy to transport and you have lots of choice.

 

[ric4682]

uhm, maybe consider a vertical 2x210 stack? it's taller and easy to transport and you have lots of choice.

I’ve thought about that too. When I’m loading in normally 2 smaller things isn’t easier than 1 bigger thing on wheels. Especially if I’m moving things across a yard, or any stairs are involved.
Of course I could use a dolly, and have in the past, but that’s one more thing I have to bring and then I have to be careful that stuff when fall off the dolly when going over a curb or a lawn or something.

 

[ardgedee]

Put a wedge under the speaker to tilt it back?

 

[ric4682]

Put a wedge under the speaker to tilt it back?

That’s true! I’ve tried that in the past and found that the head will yeet itself from the top of the cab fairly quickly. It’s also one more thing to have to remember.
Plus the being able to hear myself is kind of a secondary benefit of the cab design, I’ve never had too much of an issue with not being able to hear my bass. The main thing I’m looking for is a loud and light cab that’s easy to move around and is well matched for the head I have. Both sonically, and aesthetically.

When it’s 1am and it’s time to load out after spending the entire day sweating in a suit the ease of shlep is paramount.

 

[monsterthompson]

I’ve thought about that too. When I’m loading in normally 2 smaller things isn’t easier than 1 bigger thing on wheels.

This isn’t always the case, but it is often the case. I’ve sometimes preferred the 1 bigger over the 2 smaller. Obviously you know your rig and load in/out better than anyone.

 

[EliasA]

Gotta love "yeet". Anyways a Barefaced Three10 / Three10T could fit the bill. I wish I could speak to the merits of the Laney but I have never seen one either.

 

[gtirard]

A couple of options…

 

[ric4682]

Gotta love "yeet". Anyways a Barefaced Three10 / Three10T could fit the bill. I wish I could speak to the merits of the Laney but I have never seen one either.

I was looking at those! Seems to be a really cool option. I wish there was a way to hear them before I drop the money on one. That’s really the only reason I don’t already have one yet.

 

[RasJay]

Is there a sonic or aesthetic reason you want offset speakers? Genzler makes straight and slanted (SLT) cabs and are lightweight but not in the exact config you are asking for. However the Bass Array series has great dispersion of sound using concepts of a stacked PA array. I have their slanted 2x10 on top of a slanted 1x15.

And when I emailed their customer service to ask some questions about pairing their different sized cabs together, Jeff Genzler took the time to give me a detailed response.

 

[Wasnex]

The offset driver alignment is intended to address comb filtering between the drivers rather than make the cab taller.

I don't think a 410 will fall in the optimal size for a tilt and roll design. They are not tall enough. If the dimensions are altered to make them tall enough, then it effects width and/or depth. Otherwise the cab's tuning would be affected, so a different driver design would be required.

There have been tilt and roll 412, 610, 215, and 810 cabs.

One way around height issue would be to add a telescoping handle. I have an old GK 112 combo that tilts and rolls. My understanding is the telescoping handles tend to be problematic. They may rattle or the may get stuck.


If you are committed to a 410 format and want tilt and roll. Consider a heavy-duty luggage cart with elastic cords.

Example:

Folding Hand Trucks in Stock - ULINE

Uline stocks a wide selection of Folding Hand Trucks. Order by 6 p.m. for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 45,000 products in stock. 14 locations across USA, Canada and Mexico for fast delivery of Folding Hand Trucks.

www.uline.com

 

[ric4682]

Is there a sonic or aesthetic reason you want offset speakers? Genzler makes straight and slanted (SLT) cabs and are lightweight but not in the exact config you are asking for. However the Bass Array series has great dispersion of sound using concepts of a stacked PA array. I have their slanted 2x10 on top of a slanted 1x15.

And when I emailed their customer service to ask some questions about pairing their different sized cabs together, Jeff Genzler took the time to give me a detailed response.

I actually had the first version of the BA112 cabs when they first came out and enjoyed them!
The reason is so that I’m able to get power and output of a 410 (or similar dispersion speaker configuration) while being able to take advantage of a tilt back caster situation for easy shlepping.

 

[ctmullins]

I love my vertical 410. It has integrated casters and handles, and is loaded with Neo drivers. It is really easy to transport, and I can tilt and slide it into the back of my SUV. I love the small stage footprint, the height closer to my ears, and the horizontal dispersion of a vertical array of drivers.

I usually use it with one of several class D heads, which are not too big for the top of the cab. But sometimes I use it with my three-space SansAmp RPM with Crown power amp, in which case I just leave the rack on the floor next to the cab.

 

[ric4682]

The offset driver alignment is intended to address comb filtering between the drivers rather than make the cab taller.

I don't think a 410 will fall in the optimal size for a tilt and roll design. They are not tall enough. If the dimensions are altered to make them tall enough, then it effects width and/or depth. Otherwise the cab's tuning would be affected, so a different driver design would be required.

There have been tilt and roll 412, 610, 215, and 810 cabs.

One way around height issue would be to add a telescoping handle. I have an old GK 112 combo that tilts and rolls. My understanding is the telescoping handles tend to be problematic. They may rattle or the may get stuck.


If you are committed to a 410 format and want tilt and roll. Consider a heavy-duty luggage cart with elastic cords.

Example:

Folding Hand Trucks in Stock - ULINE

Uline stocks a wide selection of Folding Hand Trucks. Order by 6 p.m. for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 45,000 products in stock. 14 locations across USA, Canada and Mexico for fast delivery of Folding Hand Trucks.

www.uline.com

View attachment 7205709

That’s cool about addressing the comb filtering, I didn’t know that!

I use a folding dolly/hand truck/luggage cart with my current set up and it’s better than carrying things long distances, but I’d love to avoid having to bring an extra piece of equipment just to move my cab around when there are cabs that exist with the feature built in. Plus I risk things falling off the dolly if I don’t strap them down, which is fine but it’s just one more thing to do and undo for the load in. And then do and undo again for the load out. It’s also one more thing to stow and then bring back out with the cases during a reception or corporate event.
The dolly may have to be what I settle on though if I can’t find/commission the cab I have in mind.

About the height, I’m a pretty short dude and found that the old Genz-Benz NeoX-212 was almost perfect, but they just didn’t put the handle in the middle so there was no way to move it one handed. It was a fine height. I think than an offset 410 would be a pretty comparable height.
412, 610, and 810 are all bigger than is practical for 95% of my gigs. 215 might be okay, but I haven’t found one I love the sound of yet.

 

[micguy]

I see two challenges with the offset design:

1) Any time you make a cab smaller, you are trading off low freq performance, or efficiency, or a bit of both. Regular 410’s are already a compromise, making one smaller just moves things a bit more in that direction.

2) Bracing the front panel is tougher with that design - not much meat left in the baffle board, or room between the drivers for a brace behind the baffle. If the thing can’t be braced well, there are sonic disadvantages that you have to live with.

 

[Parzival]

You can get a little red hand cart dolly at Harbor Freight Tools for like $50. Problem solved.

 

[ric4682]

You can get a little red hand cart dolly at Harbor Freight Tools for like $50. Problem solved.

Thanks!

 

[ric4682]

I see two challenges with the offset design:

1) Any time you make a cab smaller, you are trading off low freq performance, or efficiency, or a bit of both. Regular 410’s are already a compromise, making one smaller just moves things a bit more in that direction.

2) Bracing the front panel is tougher with that design - not much meat left in the baffle board, or room between the drivers for a brace behind the baffle. If the thing can’t be braced well, there are sonic disadvantages that you have to live with.

I hadn’t considered that. I’m sure it’s not as straight forward as a standard 410 box from a design standpoint.

 

[oranje]

Maybe consider two 8ohm 2x12s, you can use one for regular gigs and then add the second as needed with a 4ohm load, which will get very loud. The Aguilar 2x12 cabs are a great option as well. I use a DB750 and have one custom 2x12 that can switch between 16 and 4ohm, and then two single 12s that are 8ohm together. The 2x12 at 4ohm is good for just about anything but I can add the other cabs and be at 5.3ohms-plenty loud. Your DB751 is already a powerful, loud head and should be stable at 2ohm so you have a bunch of options.

 

[Ender_rpm]

I don't think a 410 will fall in the optimal size for a tilt and roll design. They are not tall enough. If the dimensions are altered to make them tall enough, then it effects width and/or depth. Otherwise the cab's tuning would be affected, so a different driver design would be required.
......
If you are committed to a 410 format and want tilt and roll. Consider a heavy-duty luggage cart with elastic cords.

They're geeky as hell, but my rock and roller cart has paid for itself several times over making loads outs easier.

I also want to say, I have an NV610, but thats almost already to short to tilt and roll well. Its a good 8-10" shorter than my old peavey 215, but slighltly less convenient to move because of that. Slightly, minorly, a wee bab y amount XD