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OIL AND PAPER CAPACITOR
- Thread starter shababy32
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- mods oil paper precision bass
Absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^ A cap is a cap is a cap is a cap in a bass' passive tone circuit!
What does it mean after 0.47. Some say 100v I have seen 50v even 500v what should I get ?
I know p bass is 0.47
Would a jazz deluxe 5 string be the same
Thanks for your help
I know p bass is 0.47
Would a jazz deluxe 5 string be the same
Thanks for your help
0.47 is the wrong capacitance, in any unit of measure. You want 0.047uF/47nF. The decimal point is very important.
The voltage rating of a capacitor does not matter for a tone control. Your maximum voltage will be a couple of volts, and that's if you are really playing hard. Accordingly, any capacitor rated for more than a couple of volts will be able to handle the signal just fine.
okcrum
in your chest
Has anyone here seen a paper or oil cap in any other modern electronic device? There's a reason for that. 
Smaller values equate to a higher rolloff frequency at the tone control, which in practical terms means more preservation of mids as you roll the tone back. There is no definitive answer as the actual cutoff depends also on the impedance of the pickup and to some extent the value of the volume pot (you should account for both) where higher leads to a lower cutoff. Anything from 0.022uF to 0.10uF are typical. As @line6man noted, voltage rating means nothing in this application.
You'd be surprised to find PIO caps in some let's-call-them "modern" devices.Think of high-end audio systems with tubes where PIO have two major applications : one is as a signal cap (right in the audio path betwen two stages or as a cathode bypass) and the other is in HT source (as a standalone or bypassing something else).The other use I saw is in some microwave ovens (a high-voltage,small capacity PIO).In the not-so-far past I ran some caps'measurements using an industrial (branded "Marconi" if I recall corectly) capacimeter wich had a strange measurement function called "Q" (quality of...something).The PIOs I measured (one with copper foil,the other w/silver foil) developed the best figure,far better than any "modern" cap (read:made with hitec materials) in the same value range.The same surprise with mica-silver caps.True,they're (both types) rather big and unfriendly to work with in tight spaces BUT AFAIK there's no PIO that's gonna let you down (assuming that you're not doing something really insane with them).Has anyone here seen a paper or oil cap in any other modern electronic device? There's a reason for that.
Related to passive tone in a bass,it's fully understandable why an installed PIO looks like snake oil.The cap itself has little to do with those areas where really shines.I'd say,the tone cap's value (together with the pot's value and the PU's characteristics) plays a more important role,being a humble ceramic up to...whatever suits your wallet and eye's pleasure.
okcrum
in your chest
TL
DR: If you need a good .047 uf at 20 kv, oil's your choice.Sorry, I should clarify. I should have added something about modern engineering practice and consumer systems.
Paper caps are well known as some of the least expensive, reliable and stable caps ever made. Ask anyone who restores antique electronics. Those people shouted "Halleluja!!!" when Orange Drops came out. Oil caps are generally large for a given value of capacitance, can leak or explode, and are really only used in new designs where high dielectric strength (HV) and large AC current rating is needed. High quality mica caps are used for small values in these cases since they have similar properties. They just get impractically large when you need a few uf.
Look up at some power poles; oil caps are used for phase compensation/motor start/run, etc. in AC power systems, as well as filter caps in HV (> 1kv) power supplies. As far as consumer electronics goes, the ones in your microwave or (possibly, if big enough) electric motors are pretty lonely among the hundreds or thousands of caps in a typical residence.All caps have a Q value since they have an associated ohmic loss and parasitic inductance. So do all inductors, since they have parasitic capacitance. They also have a self resonant frequency. Only the good ones print it on the label. I have some glass capacitors like that - they're better than oil. Q depends mostly on the dielectric and geometry of the cap. Q is important in RF circuits, not audio. Can you hear the difference between a coupling cap with a Q of 200, and an oil coupling cap with a Q of 2000? No. You'll notice a difference if you use them at 1 Mhz, though. The difference in thermal noise from a high Q cap is pretty noticable in a few pf in a satellite LNA at 26 GHz, but not so much in a few nf at 1 kHz. I think that's the other popular audiophile argument for using them.
PIO caps are the cork sniffer name for oil caps. For small values polyester film is just as good and at least two orders of magnitude less costly, judging from the retail prices.
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I really don't intend opening THE can of worms here but I have to dissapoint you:yes,I hear such differences.You'd hear them too if you'd listen the audio systems I'm listening and rely on (minimalist tube amps w/horns).On the other hand,true,in other "consumer-grade" SS devices,the difference is none.
The placebo and snake-oil effects are the main reason I left a long time ago the "audiophile world" and every BS related to it.Still,a trained ear can discern between a Harman Kardon receiver and a AN Kondo's work of art and concepts.
okcrum
in your chest
I really don't intend opening THE can of worms here but I have to dissapoint you:yes,I hear such differences.You'd hear them too if you'd listen the audio systems I'm listening and rely on (minimalist tube amps w/horns).On the other hand,true,in other "consumer-grade" SS devices,the difference is none.
The placebo and snake-oil effects are the main reason I left a long time ago the "audiophile world" and every BS related to it.Still,a trained ear can discern between a Harman Kardon receiver and a AN Kondo's work of art and concepts.
The question was rhetorical. Statistically someone certainly would claim to hear the difference. I think marketing psychology guarantees it, but it does not make the effect real.
Why compare complete systems when we are talking components? If you hear a difference it could be dozens of other causes.
You are certainly free to listen to and spend whatever you want on a system. I'm just trying to maybe save the OP a few bucks on the snake oil about these caps.
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Statistically,someone DOES hear the difference.Marketing psychology has NOTHING to do with what and how I hear...at least because I have a completely different background wich isn't tributary at all to market trends.
To respond to your second (also rethorical?) question,because different systems are,well,different by concept and construction.What (read:a component,any component) it's non-relevant in one,may work in spades in the other.Learned this during thousands of hours of trial-and-error tests.
To respond to your second (also rethorical?) question,because different systems are,well,different by concept and construction.What (read:a component,any component) it's non-relevant in one,may work in spades in the other.Learned this during thousands of hours of trial-and-error tests.
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if a cap is in the signal path of an audio signal of course you will hear a difference between types. I know this from building my own preamps. but this thread is about tone caps connected to ground and you won't hear a difference
