OMG! Compressor goes last‽

[kyral210]

Last Night I realised why my tone was ‘bad’ to my ears all these years: I had followed the general advice of compressor first!

I couldn't understand why my tone was subpar. It just didn't sound as good as others or the sound in my head. I ran Fender Jaguar bass with EMG PICKUPS into an HX Stomp with an MXR M87 in the effects loop placed first in the chain (or before the stomp). My gear was great so why was my tone not good enough?

Then, magic happened. I had handed around with the patch and moved the compressor to the end of the signal chain on a whim and somehow saved it and forgot. Then, last night, I fired up my pedalboard at practice and magic happened: my tone was perfect! I couldn't believe it. Then I checked my edit, and there it was: a compressor last in the signal chain!

To make matters more detailed, I then turned the compressor off for the fuzz channel before fuzz is already compressed. Big mistake, the tone sounded kind of ‘pumping’. An edit later and the latch is ready: and it sounds perfect!

I wish I had known this before. Why does everyone say put the compressor first‽

 

[silky smoove]

Why does everyone say put the compressor first‽

Because some compressors work better early in the chain. Some work better at the end. All compressors are a little different.

 

[FretRiff]

It could depend on the compressor, or the other pedals in the chain. At the end it tames the entire signal (esp wilder fuzz etc that can seesaw output levels), and helps glue sound. But it potentially can overcompress fx trails and affect playing dynamics.

At the beginning it tames inconsistent attack and feeds a more uniform and predictable signal for mid/synth/OD/distortion to work with.

 

[kyral210]

It could depend on the compressor, or the other pedals in the chain. At the end it tames the entire signal (esp wilder fuzz etc that can seesaw output levels), and helps glue sound. But it potentially can overcompress fx trails and affect playing dynamics.

At the beginning it tames inconsistent attack and feeds a more uniform and predictable signal for mid/synth/OD/distortion to work with.

For me, and my ear, it makes just the amp and cab clock sound incredible as well as when throwing effects in. I have the Black Haze 2 in the second loop and modelling a Wounded Paw Battering Ram. The drive is more grinding and incredible in the mix. The compressor is magic!

 

[RattleSnack]

I have said it here before: compression is producer's or sound guy's tool. On this forum it's celebrated like some kind of magic wand, but in reality it's hard to set it right without listening to whole band, in the context (i.e. venue).
Producers use it in different places for different purposes. If it's used to level out playing (i.e. different techniques) then it's just after instrument and then it's set more subtle. Typical place is last, after every EQ and effect. For last 10-15 years, they use it in multiple stages, specialy for vocals.
IMO it's really overdone and takes away from performance. Musician needs dynamics! There are parts of songs to accent, unisons, breaks. Wide dynamics is a part of live performance and good musician knows how to control it and use it.
I do live sound for my covers band. There is compression only on some drum mics, and none on the rest of channels, including bass guitar which is very consistent. In the end, compression is just a tool to control dynamics - you do not need it if they are already under control.

 

[ashtray]

A compressor first will take away much of the dynamics of your playing. It smooths everything out, in a way. If you are running effects that want dynamics, and accentuate them, you definitely don’t want a compressor before that effect. Running the compressor at the end can still allow you dynamics without worry of volume spikes.

And some players like a compressor first, to help even out the output of their bass so they feed a more steady signal to the rest of their chain. Synth pedals tend to like a smoother signal, so running a comp in front can be very helpful in getting consistent output from the synth pedal.

I typically run the comp after the eq/preamp section - and set it so it leaves me alone for the most part unless I pop/slap or hit a string with too much gusto. I play with a medium light touch, but playing slap gets loud. Setting the comp up so it only grabs the slap notes and calm them down can be very helpful.

Again, depends what effects you are using, and how you’re using the compressor. Heavy use at the start of the chain will really eliminate a lot of the dynamics in your playing.

 

[IanStephenson]

Both?

As noted, they do different things at different places in the chain. At the start to clean up your bass sound for the effects. At the end to clean up the dynamics of your effects.

If you were mixing you'd normally have some compression on individual channels as they arrive at the desk to keep them under control, then you'd mix, and then have some kind of compressor on the final output to even out the final mix. Multiple compressors different jobs, so each can be tuned for the job, rather than having to overly compress at one stage to try and fix multiple issues.

 

[BaltBass5]

It all depends on a lot of variables starting with "What are you trying to accomplish with the compression".

I place my compressor first right after my wireless receiver...why? Because I play VERY hot Spector basses and I'm using the Cali '76 with VERY light settings to tame the hot output of the Spectors before the signal hits my effects.

When I was playing Passive Laklands I had a Kelley Bassist last in chain to just add a little punch and tighten up my overall signal.

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

My experience aligns with the previous statements. Here's my subjective view.

A compressor pedal at the beginning of the chain with mild settings can tame the bass's wild dynamic range. It prevents the B and G strings from deviating too much and prevents slaps from damaging eardrums. It's like a "make-up" for the night out. I usually gig with one as such, but not at home. I prefer to hear my dynamics transparently and improve them consistently.

A compressor pedal at the end of the chain acts as a "glue" or "limiter" for the entire chain. Combining effects with varying settings can benefit from a final compressor, ensuring a consistent signal to the desk. However, some settings may be masked by the compressor if not set delicately.

In my opinion, the sound engineer on the mixing desk can set the final compression, but they can't help with the initial compression before effects. That's where I find the pedal most useful.

I always communicate with the sound engineer about compression during sound check. If I have a compressor, I inform them, and they may disable the desk compression on my channel to avoid over-compression.

If multiple pedals require a final compression stage, the engineer needs to listen to your sound with those effects on and off to decide on compression. Even with a final compression "pedal", it might not be set correctly for the FOH. Remember, you won't hear the sound in the full venue, so how can you know your settings are correct? Engineers also adjust settings during the performance based on what they hear, which you can't do.

In conclusion, I prefer an initial compression "pedal" with mild settings to balance the bass's raw sound, but let the engineers shape the final one. Transparent communication is key.

 

[mcnach]

Last Night I realised why my tone was ‘bad’ to my ears all these years: I had followed the general advice of compressor first!

I couldn't understand why my tone was subpar. It just didn't sound as good as others or the sound in my head. I ran Fender Jaguar bass with EMG PICKUPS into an HX Stomp with an MXR M87 in the effects loop placed first in the chain (or before the stomp). My gear was great so why was my tone not good enough?

Then, magic happened. I had handed around with the patch and moved the compressor to the end of the signal chain on a whim and somehow saved it and forgot. Then, last night, I fired up my pedalboard at practice and magic happened: my tone was perfect! I couldn't believe it. Then I checked my edit, and there it was: a compressor last in the signal chain!

To make matters more detailed, I then turned the compressor off for the fuzz channel before fuzz is already compressed. Big mistake, the tone sounded kind of ‘pumping’. An edit later and the latch is ready: and it sounds perfect!

I wish I had known this before. Why does everyone say put the compressor first‽

Everyone says that? I don't think so

Place it where you need it, there's no one-solution-fits-all. Do you want to even out things before the signal hits a specific effect? Then place it before that. Do you want to tame a wild envelope filter? Place it after it. And so on...

Don't just use FX for the sake of it, think what you want to achieve and that will tell you what to get and where to place it.

 

[SpiderBass1965]

My experience aligns with the previous statements. Here's my subjective view.

A compressor pedal at the beginning of the chain with mild settings can tame the bass's wild dynamic range. It prevents the B and G strings from deviating too much and prevents slaps from damaging eardrums. It's like a "make-up" for the night out. I usually gig with one as such, but not at home. I prefer to hear my dynamics transparently and improve them consistently.

A compressor pedal at the end of the chain acts as a "glue" or "limiter" for the entire chain. Combining effects with varying settings can benefit from a final compressor, ensuring a consistent signal to the desk. However, some settings may be masked by the compressor if not set delicately.

In my opinion, the sound engineer on the mixing desk can set the final compression, but they can't help with the initial compression before effects. That's where I find the pedal most useful.

I always communicate with the sound engineer about compression during sound check. If I have a compressor, I inform them, and they may disable the desk compression on my channel to avoid over-compression.

If multiple pedals require a final compression stage, the engineer needs to listen to your sound with those effects on and off to decide on compression. Even with a final compression "pedal", it might not be set correctly for the FOH. Remember, you won't hear the sound in the full venue, so how can you know your settings are correct? Engineers also adjust settings during the performance based on what they hear, which you can't do.

In conclusion, I prefer an initial compression "pedal" with mild settings to balance the bass's raw sound, but let the engineers shape the final one. Transparent communication is key.

I totally agree with this. I have used a compressor for "Live" applications at the beginning of my chain with a light setting for many years. It is perfect to calm the transition between playing with fingers and a plectrum. Also keeps a heavy hand from overpowering the mix. I let the FOH take care of what they need on their end if a compressor is needed there.

 

[BassBrass]

I put the (100% necessary) compressor after tone effects (including interval/envelope/drive/eq effects) but before delay or chorus effects. I want the delay to be free. OP sounds like he's moving digital effect emulations named after famous real effects around inside a multi, and he found something that works better than something else. That's it's own thing and unrelated to an independent pedal chain. (the is no real Wounded Paw, it's a name of a digital emulation that might sound like the real thing) Wounded Paw is a small company and they aren't going to court to protect their intellectual property. Hopefully they have a licensing agreement with the maker of the multi. At least that what it seems to be going on from the description, it isn't exactly clear.

 

[jimfist]

The compressor goes first!
The compressor goes last!
You don't need a compressor!
You need TWO compressors, one first and one last!

Jeez, people really get dug in when it comes to compressors, seemingly more so that almost any other aspect of an effects chain.
It's like anything: if you use a tool improperly you'll get unhelpful results. You can get good results using only your ears (if it works for you, it works for you), but it's good to know and understand how and why your tools do the things they do - especially compression.

To those who say a compressor is totally unnecessary for bassists, I tend to disagree with that opinion for a lot of reasons. Good players don't NEED to use compression (or anything other than a bass, cable and bass amp or DI for that matter) to pull off a gig, and that is ultimately a worthy goal. But IMHO it's a bit narrow-minded to say that there's no legit use for compression in a bass pedal chain. Believe it or not, there are touring pro bassists who use compression. I'm sure they have good reasons.

Use what you like, like what you use. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[Mojo34]

I think the folks at Caveman Audio agree with you. They say they've designed their compressor to be at the end of the chain. However, I always have light compression as my first box on the pedalboard. I like to think it feeds a cleaner signal to my other pedals. Also, since I run DI, I would need a compressor with an XLR output, which I don't have.

 

[ghiggin1079]

The HX does weird things I was building a patch and forgot to put the hpf in front of the octave(it just ended up there bc it was it order I put effects into the patch) and it was like the heaven's choruses singing

 

[WG Plum]

I always have mine towards the end.

 

[tidbits]

At the beginning it tames inconsistent attack and feeds a more uniform and predictable signal for mid/synth/OD/distortion to work with.

Yep this is my experience with it. I do a touch heavier compression ratio with a good amount of clean blended back in (not options on every compressor) at the beginning and the rest of the board was much easier to deal with.

But recently I picked up a DCX Bass and put it in the usual spot for my low-gain drive and it sounded lifeless, to the point I was thinking about returning it. I swapped around the order of things to put it ahead of the comp and lo and behold, there's the magic everyone raves about. So now I'm experimenting with where in the gain stack the comp will end up. I'm using the Empress Bass Comp, so I've liked it early in the chain with the Tone/Color engaged for the mid bump feeding the drives. Might be looking more seriously to get a separate EQ pedal to handle that early mid bump.

 

[Adjectives]

IMO it's really overdone and takes away from performance. Musician needs dynamics! There are parts of songs to accent, unisons, breaks. Wide dynamics is a part of live performance and good musician knows how to control it and use it.

I used to use compressors(MX87) until I really started playing with dynamics and turning up volume/controlling my attack.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Been playing for a long time but I'm a total noobie on pedals, including compression. I put together my pedal board to include a MX87 at front of chain, and when I began making adjustments to the pedals I realized that my normal plucking touch is so light and my basses have such low output that I barely activate the unit. I barely get any lights unless I really consciously bang away at it, even with the input cranked up to 3 O'Clock, but I can hear a big difference in my tone and sustain. It does smooth things out a bit. Here is the set-up.

 

[davedamage]

I have said it here before: compression is producer's or sound guy's tool. On this forum it's celebrated like some kind of magic wand, but in reality it's hard to set it right without listening to whole band, in the context (i.e. venue).
Producers use it in different places for different purposes. If it's used to level out playing (i.e. different techniques) then it's just after instrument and then it's set more subtle. Typical place is last, after every EQ and effect. For last 10-15 years, they use it in multiple stages, specialy for vocals.
IMO it's really overdone and takes away from performance. Musician needs dynamics! There are parts of songs to accent, unisons, breaks. Wide dynamics is a part of live performance and good musician knows how to control it and use it.
I do live sound for my covers band. There is compression only on some drum mics, and none on the rest of channels, including bass guitar which is very consistent. In the end, compression is just a tool to control dynamics - you do not need it if they are already under control.

In this case, I feel like the IMO should have been at the beginning of the post, where it would be the most useful. Towards the end of the middle, some of the nuance gets lost.