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On Stage Cab Placement

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#22
mam1862 said:
Man, this is a lot more involved than I thought. Great stuff here to think about.
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Imagine having to stack 3 full stacks all on top of each other (what a nightmare) at some point you have to stack the amp stacks side by side, think about it. For example look at Flea’s rigs . . . stacked, then the stack are side-by-side (a bass wall). BTW, if you ever drive more than one amp rig checkout the Lehle P-Split Splitter - it has ground lift and phase switches.
 
#23
mam1862 said:
I had the guys in my band ask me to do this and it never really has crossed my mind so I thought I would ask the question on TB. With two matching cabs, are you better off stacking them on top of each other or is it ok to place them in the same place on opposite sides of the stage (One on each side of the drums as an example)? Which way and why?
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It's probably OK to place 810s or 1515/66s side by side :). Toeing them in a little will help with dispersion if that's your setup.
 
#24
Joe Louvar said:
Imagine having to stack 3 full stacks all on top of each other (what a nightmare) at some point you have to stack the amp stacks side by side
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You don't, because no one 'needs' three full stacks.

look at Flea’s rigs . . . stacked, then the stack are side-by-side (a bass wall).
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Either they're just for show or Flea isn't an acoustical engineer and has never had an acoustical engineer explain to him why such excess doesn't make you sound better. Or both. And who cares anyway? I can remember when I thought I had to copy what all my 'heros' did too. Then I turned 17.
 
#25
As both a bassist and and sound tech I have seen a huge variety of placements. The single item that I beleive to be the most important is distance. I have seen lots of bass players with a 1000w blowing directly at their knees tell me that they cannot hear. Their pants are flapping and the house is all bass from the stage and they "can't" hear themselves ?

The sound waves from a bass are long. When you stand 3 ft from your speaker you will probably not hear the fundament of the note.

I generally as the bass players to move 6 to 8 ft from their speaker ( if possible ) and it usually cures the problems.

If there is not enought room availible, tilting and or raising the cab is the best option
 
#27
greenboy said:
So you're the soundguy that was soloing board channels with a pair of 55-foot-wide headphones?
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Is that the same one who a few weeks ago told me my rig would sound way better with my two cabinets not stacked, but next to each other, or better yet, on other sided of the stage? The same one who told me when I had them stacked it was producing a 'sine wave' that was a problem and needed fixing?
 
#28
brokencookie said:
The sound waves from a bass are long. When you stand 3 ft from your speaker you will probably not hear the fundament of the note.
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You've got it totally backwards. Hearing the fundamentals close to the cab is no problem, as long wavelengths travel in an omni-directional spherical pattern. Hearing the mids and highs when the cab is below your waist and you're close to it is a problem, as the shorter wavelengths of the mids and highs travel in narrow arcs, and if your ears aren't within the arcs you don't hear them. Stack your cabs, get your ears within those arcs, problem solved.
 
#29
billfitzmaurice said:
You don't, because no one 'needs' three full stacks.
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Years ago back when John Entwistle was using Trace Elliot amps I ran the house (outdoor show) for him at the Sonoma County Fair grounds in Santa Rosa, CA and he was so loud I had to take him out of the main mix and use the PA to support the rest of the band - and the 40,000 watts was barely enough to keep up with John's stage power - our monitor engineer was lol and loving it. BTW, he was loud but he sounded awesome. RIP John :(
 
#30
Joe Louvar said:
he was loud but he sounded awesome.
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And he was stupid. Talented yes, but stupid nonetheless, never considering the ramifications of his actions, on or off stage. Perhaps he and Townshend wouldn't have been quite so dB silly in their youth if they'd known they'd go deaf as a result. Perhaps not. But it's certainly not something to emulate.
 
#32
Joe Louvar said:
To each their own - that's the point I'm making. Have a fun week Bill and I wish you the best. :)
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Someone asked a specific question about stacking or separating cabs on stage for optimal results. How is 'to each their own' a helpful point, especially when so many misunderstand the physics involved?
 
#33
#34
Joe Louvar said:
Some people say you shouldn’t mix speakers or stack speakers side-by-side, but in the real world people do it all the time - it’s matter personal taste and that is what I mean by to each their own.
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I don't think Flea lives in the real world.

People do all sorts of stupid sh!t, even people who should know better. I know, I'm one of them. If you want to do something "outside the rules", you can and should know what you're trying to achieve and how to go about it. Saying "it's personal taste" is kinda useless. I would certainly not take acoustic engineering advice from Flea or Entwistle, whatever I may think of their playing.
 
#36
I can say with real-world assurance that putting low-frequency speakers on different sides of the stage will produce VERY AUDIBLE comb filtering effects.

At one particular outdoor show, our soundguy had subs placed on either end of the stage. He played some songs through the PA, and as I walked parallel to the stage about 50 feet away, the bass at times was barey noticable and at other times it was chest-rattling. The effect was so noticable that it stopped me in my tracks and made me wonder if my hearing was going bad!
 
#38
billfitzmaurice said:
You don't, because no one 'needs' three full stacks.

Either they're just for show or Flea isn't an acoustical engineer and has never had an acoustical engineer explain to him why such excess doesn't make you sound better. Or both. And who cares anyway? I can remember when I thought I had to copy what all my 'heros' did too. Then I turned 17.
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Back when you were 17, did they have anything bigger than the B-15? ;)
 
#40
Joe Louvar said:
Flea’s stage rig.

Shock mounted GK power amps, wireless, etc.
Flea27s bass rig image by Rezrover on Photobucket

Speaker Cabinets - three stacks of GK 4x10’s over 1x15’s.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i222/Rezrover/Myspace Comments/Gear/Flea2.jpg

Some people say you shouldn’t mix speakers or stack speakers side-by-side, but in the real world people do it all the time - it’s matter personal taste and that is what I mean by to each their own.
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It is and it isn't, Joe. People do often like their mismatched cabs and horizontally spread stacks, but the facts is the facts.
 
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